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> none of those comments are even able to describe which patent it is that is blocking "innovation in this space". That's because there are over 700 of them:

by ohazi 6y ago

> none of those comments are even able to describe which patent it is that is blocking "innovation in this space". That's because there are over 700 of them: https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation None of what you said about the physics of low power displays is wrong, but you're giving E Ink Corporation a pass when they really don't deserve one. They've been unreasonably hostile to basically everybody that has wanted to work with them over the years. No volume price breaks, no prototype-quantity orders (at any price), no partnering with other manufacturers, no shared development projects, absolutely no sharing of the proprietary driving waveforms to groups that want to use a different controller, etc. Many, many embedded, tablet, even IoT projects that started out wanting to use an eInk display for power reasons had to settle for other technologies because the company just wasn't interested in exploring new leads that weren't one of their existing eBook partners. I can understand having priorities, but you're not supposed to be able to sit on a patent hoard this large while behaving this badly (FRAND requirements, etc.).

georgefloyd 6y ago
> They've been unreasonably hostile to basically everybody that has wanted to work with them over the years. Citation needed.
jschwartzi 6y ago
Yeah this is why a lot of battery-powered electronic shelf labels use LCD. E-Ink's product is great but they're impossible to actually build into a working product line because their terms are so odious.
- girvo 6y ago
  Even trying to purchase one as a hacker to use with a Pi to create a “modern day” HP 200LX palm-top required so much legal complexity bullshit and painful terms that it literally wasn’t possible. I could buy the part on the grey market from China, but the documentation was literally non-existent (as in, there was zero, none. At least from the seller I wanted it from). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX Does anyone have any suggestions for a screen that would fit this sort of use-case? The UI/UX I planned on being a straight Linux TTY1 to begin with.
  - rcoder 6y ago
    If you're online interested in limited quantities, this Sharp display might well fit the bill: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 It's a "memory LCD", which has very low no power drain when idle, but has an LCD's refresh speed (i.e., fast enough to display video). You can also get some decently-documented eInk boards from Waveshare in 1" to 13" sizes, though the costs are definitely too high for anything but one-off Maker projects: https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper.htm You may also find the PaperTTY project interesting for your TUI: https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY
andrehill 6y ago
> That's because there are over 700 of them: And... what's wrong with that specifically please? Tonnes of companies have hundreds and even thousands of patents. The original claim that innovation is being blocked needs a clear example to support it. > No volume price breaks, no prototype-quantity orders (at any price), no partnering with other manufacturers, no shared development projects None of this sounds like blocking innovation. Sounds more like a difference in perception about costs. It would be like me expecting to get preferential treatment from one of the LCD vendors to develop something. > but you're not supposed to be able to sit on a patent hoard this large while behaving this badly I see a lot of superlatives but googling doesn't give me any hint of what you're referring to as their bad behaviour.

by ohazi 6y ago

georgefloyd 6y ago

> They've been unreasonably hostile to basically everybody that has wanted to work with them over the years. Citation needed.

jschwartzi 6y ago

Yeah this is why a lot of battery-powered electronic shelf labels use LCD. E-Ink's product is great but they're impossible to actually build into a working product line because their terms are so odious.

girvo 6y ago
Even trying to purchase one as a hacker to use with a Pi to create a “modern day” HP 200LX palm-top required so much legal complexity bullshit and painful terms that it literally wasn’t possible. I could buy the part on the grey market from China, but the documentation was literally non-existent (as in, there was zero, none. At least from the seller I wanted it from). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX Does anyone have any suggestions for a screen that would fit this sort of use-case? The UI/UX I planned on being a straight Linux TTY1 to begin with.
- rcoder 6y ago
  If you're online interested in limited quantities, this Sharp display might well fit the bill: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 It's a "memory LCD", which has very low no power drain when idle, but has an LCD's refresh speed (i.e., fast enough to display video). You can also get some decently-documented eInk boards from Waveshare in 1" to 13" sizes, though the costs are definitely too high for anything but one-off Maker projects: https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper.htm You may also find the PaperTTY project interesting for your TUI: https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY

andrehill 6y ago

> That's because there are over 700 of them: And... what's wrong with that specifically please? Tonnes of companies have hundreds and even thousands of patents. The original claim that innovation is being blocked needs a clear example to support it. > No volume price breaks, no prototype-quantity orders (at any price), no partnering with other manufacturers, no shared development projects None of this sounds like blocking innovation. Sounds more like a difference in perception about costs. It would be like me expecting to get preferential treatment from one of the LCD vendors to develop something. > but you're not supposed to be able to sit on a patent hoard this large while behaving this badly I see a lot of superlatives but googling doesn't give me any hint of what you're referring to as their bad behaviour.