5 ms·

Honestly, if the choice is removing the dams and moving to more polluting energy forms, or letting the fish go extinct, I think letting the fish go extinct is t

Honestly, if the choice is removing the dams and moving to more polluting energy forms, or letting the fish go extinct, I think letting the fish go extinct is the best choice at this time. Maybe we freeze their fertilized eggs and reintroduce them at some point in the future when climate change has been reversed.

wolco2 6y ago
You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. I would rather you pay more and pay the full costs of your electrical use. Use solar, wind or invest in a nuclear plant if removing carbon is imported. Causing extinction in the name of climate change when really it's about cheaper prices is a non-starter.
- eganist 6y ago
  > You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. Interesting. Do you have a source for this?
  - wolco2 6y ago
    https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxons-a-brief-history https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxon...
    - eganist 6y ago
      Got it. They may have gotten their figures wrong - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
- margalabargala 6y ago
  > You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. No, I've done a fair amount of research into the historical climate of the PNW and I've never heard that before! Do you have any journal articles so I can read more about it?
  - wolco2 6y ago
    Of course: https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxons-a-brief-history https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxon...
    - amluto 6y ago
      By “the temp” do you mean the global temp? Here’s a paper about this: https://boris.unibe.ch/132301/7/333323_4_merged_1557735881.pdf https://boris.unibe.ch/132301/7/333323_4_merged_1557735881.p... The phenomenon you’re referring to seems to be regional, in contrast to global warming. Global warming has plenty of regional variation, but the average temperature of the whole planet is, in fact, increasing quite a bit.
    - phaemon 6y ago
      Your source is a "Reference guide for primary", it clearly states "Europe's average temperature", and grapes have been grown in Britain continually from the Roman occupation up until WW2. Global temperatures were not warmer in the past, because there was less energy retained due to lesser amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
bb88 6y ago
Salmon are used as food sources for humans and for wildlife. The stronger the salmon are, the stronger the ecology of the PNW will be. Not all dams that are blocking salmon runs in the PNW are used for hydro power, or for flood control for that matter.
- brewdad 6y ago
  Ok, I'll bite. If a dam isn't being used for hydro power, nor for flood control, what is it being used for? I'm assuming a dam that creates a reservoir for water storage is considered flood control but perhaps you are not.
  - bb88 6y ago
    "run-of-river" dams to provide easier access for barges. See this comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540540 So the question is are we okay with converting barge traffic to rail traffic? Probably. That's the way things are transported across the rest of the country.

wolco2 6y ago

You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. I would rather you pay more and pay the full costs of your electrical use. Use solar, wind or invest in a nuclear plant if removing carbon is imported. Causing extinction in the name of climate change when really it's about cheaper prices is a non-starter.

eganist 6y ago
> You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. Interesting. Do you have a source for this?
- wolco2 6y ago
  https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxons-a-brief-history https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxon...
  - eganist 6y ago
    Got it. They may have gotten their figures wrong - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
margalabargala 6y ago
> You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. No, I've done a fair amount of research into the historical climate of the PNW and I've never heard that before! Do you have any journal articles so I can read more about it?
- wolco2 6y ago
  Of course: https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxons-a-brief-history https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxon...
  - amluto 6y ago
    By “the temp” do you mean the global temp? Here’s a paper about this: https://boris.unibe.ch/132301/7/333323_4_merged_1557735881.pdf https://boris.unibe.ch/132301/7/333323_4_merged_1557735881.p... The phenomenon you’re referring to seems to be regional, in contrast to global warming. Global warming has plenty of regional variation, but the average temperature of the whole planet is, in fact, increasing quite a bit.
  - phaemon 6y ago
    Your source is a "Reference guide for primary", it clearly states "Europe's average temperature", and grapes have been grown in Britain continually from the Roman occupation up until WW2. Global temperatures were not warmer in the past, because there was less energy retained due to lesser amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

bb88 6y ago

Salmon are used as food sources for humans and for wildlife. The stronger the salmon are, the stronger the ecology of the PNW will be. Not all dams that are blocking salmon runs in the PNW are used for hydro power, or for flood control for that matter.

brewdad 6y ago
Ok, I'll bite. If a dam isn't being used for hydro power, nor for flood control, what is it being used for? I'm assuming a dam that creates a reservoir for water storage is considered flood control but perhaps you are not.
- bb88 6y ago
  "run-of-river" dams to provide easier access for barges. See this comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540540 So the question is are we okay with converting barge traffic to rail traffic? Probably. That's the way things are transported across the rest of the country.