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I agree with you, but making statements like these will just open you up to attacks from sophisticated CCP operatives and their allies. One very popular talkin

I agree with you, but making statements like these will just open you up to attacks from sophisticated CCP operatives and their allies. One very popular talking point is that mass incarceration in America has resulted in quadrupling of the prison population, putting millions of - mostly black - people behind bars. This is America's version of Uighur internment camps. Let's not even get started on the hundreds of thousands of deaths America has been responsible for around the world. It's hard to deny that - at least in the last 50 years (i.e. carefully avoiding Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution) - America has probably spread more misery and death around the world than China. However. The thing that I think is important to push on, is that in America, and in other free countries, there is open dialog on these issues. Reporters report on war crimes, millions take to the streets to protest, people take their leaders to account, politicians are voted out. Granted, history has shown that we have not been very successful at stopping these injustices, despite freedom of the press and democracy... But could they have been even worse without those freedoms? Yes. We know this because we can look at the awful record of authoritarian regimes in the 20th century. So I think it's more effective to not take the bait and pretend that the west is nowhere near as bad... Instead focus on the accountability that democratically-elected governments in free societies have, as opposed to single-party states like the PRC.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
>Reporters report on war crimes, The reporters then face prosecution or assassination, see Assange, while the war criminals receive promotions. >people take their leaders to account, politicians are voted out. Which sounds nice, but "taking account" means cushy private sector jobs, and both parties carry the same general foreign policy backed by generations of state propaganda. The "Democratic society" argument isn't much better. Two parties may lead to better treatment inside the country, but as a worldwide force it's just as flawed.
emptysongglass 6y ago
You cannot draw an equivalence between America's prison population and the CCP's literal concentration camps. There's a lot you can say about the failure of the justice system, the failure of its policing system, the yawning generational failure to address race and poverty in this country. Of course black people are going to be disadvantaged to breaking. So we demonstrate for our black sisters and brothers. We rally our voices and let out our primal screams that are heard around the nation. No screams will be heard from the Tibetans and Uyghurs. No reporters in China will tell their story. They will be broken and forgotten in silence. There is an ocean's difference between the failure and neglect of US institutions to protect its black people from harm and the determined, targeted extermination of millions of people of race not Han.
- alisonatwork 6y ago
  Well said. I think my post was a little misunderstood - it wasn't my intent to draw an equivalence. I was using the mass incarceration point as an example of how wolf warrior diplomats and the media in China disingenuously try to move the conversation away from injustices happening under the CCP. A sibling comment to yours raised Assange. That's another unfair comparison, when in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been disappeared or detained in China. Assange has just been indicted and failed to appear in court. My point was that in order to have a constructive conversation, it might be better to acknowledge and compare the facts, rather than jumping in with emotional language in the vein of (paraphrased) "no matter how bad it is in the west, nothing can hold a candle to China".
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >That's another unfair comparison, when in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been disappeared or detained in China. Assange has just been indicted and failed to appear in court. Assange has been indicted for his journalism acts, and there has already been a sham trial to push his extradition. This follows the years of what the UN calls torture we've already subjected him to. Further, in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been detained in the US. https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-...
    - elefanten 6y ago
      False, false, all false. Some of Assange's activity could be described as journalism, but a lot of it was not and clearly ran afoul of laws on the books. It is also a generationally-unique case and far from any kind of norm. Detentions of journalists in the context of protests etc needs to be carefully monitored but also has legitimate safety impacts in some cases. The trend in the US was not good this year, but it was an unusual year in multiple ways and the trend was not that bad either. The part that matters more is that very few are being tried for anything. A short detention is not "jailing journalists" in the traditional dictatorial sense.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>Reporters report on war crimes, The reporters then face prosecution or assassination, see Assange, while the war criminals receive promotions. >people take their leaders to account, politicians are voted out. Which sounds nice, but "taking account" means cushy private sector jobs, and both parties carry the same general foreign policy backed by generations of state propaganda. The "Democratic society" argument isn't much better. Two parties may lead to better treatment inside the country, but as a worldwide force it's just as flawed.

emptysongglass 6y ago

You cannot draw an equivalence between America's prison population and the CCP's literal concentration camps. There's a lot you can say about the failure of the justice system, the failure of its policing system, the yawning generational failure to address race and poverty in this country. Of course black people are going to be disadvantaged to breaking. So we demonstrate for our black sisters and brothers. We rally our voices and let out our primal screams that are heard around the nation. No screams will be heard from the Tibetans and Uyghurs. No reporters in China will tell their story. They will be broken and forgotten in silence. There is an ocean's difference between the failure and neglect of US institutions to protect its black people from harm and the determined, targeted extermination of millions of people of race not Han.

alisonatwork 6y ago
Well said. I think my post was a little misunderstood - it wasn't my intent to draw an equivalence. I was using the mass incarceration point as an example of how wolf warrior diplomats and the media in China disingenuously try to move the conversation away from injustices happening under the CCP. A sibling comment to yours raised Assange. That's another unfair comparison, when in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been disappeared or detained in China. Assange has just been indicted and failed to appear in court. My point was that in order to have a constructive conversation, it might be better to acknowledge and compare the facts, rather than jumping in with emotional language in the vein of (paraphrased) "no matter how bad it is in the west, nothing can hold a candle to China".
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >That's another unfair comparison, when in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been disappeared or detained in China. Assange has just been indicted and failed to appear in court. Assange has been indicted for his journalism acts, and there has already been a sham trial to push his extradition. This follows the years of what the UN calls torture we've already subjected him to. Further, in 2020 alone over 100 journalists have been detained in the US. https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-...
  - elefanten 6y ago
    False, false, all false. Some of Assange's activity could be described as journalism, but a lot of it was not and clearly ran afoul of laws on the books. It is also a generationally-unique case and far from any kind of norm. Detentions of journalists in the context of protests etc needs to be carefully monitored but also has legitimate safety impacts in some cases. The trend in the US was not good this year, but it was an unusual year in multiple ways and the trend was not that bad either. The part that matters more is that very few are being tried for anything. A short detention is not "jailing journalists" in the traditional dictatorial sense.