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I don’t remember the last time China did anything that warranted a positive article. That is likely a direct result of the authoritarian control China holds on

I don’t remember the last time China did anything that warranted a positive article. That is likely a direct result of the authoritarian control China holds on information. How do you report something positive when you can’t trust the source? At least in America journalists can say whatever they want. In China, they’ll be arrested, disappeared, and who knows what other barbaric acts of punishment. Simply put, by its very nature China instills mistrust, distrust, and critique.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
boomboomsubban 6y ago
How would you have any idea what China does except through various news articles? Why would an authoritarian control of information lead to only bad information getting out? China does not have a great government, but American coverage of it is also extreme propaganda.
- cowsandmilk 6y ago
  There is a huge Chinese diaspora in the US with family members who still live in China. They are the source of information that most in the US rely on more than news articles.
- underseacables 6y ago
  And what is extreme propaganda? Is the Uyghur genocide propaganda? Is the Murder of Tibetans, aggression against Taiwan, imprisonment of journalists, propaganda? Show me American propaganda that does not have a strong correlation of truth, and I’ll show you concentration camps and disappeared citizens. When was the last time the U.S. government put a doctor in prison for trying to warn others about a deadly virus? No matter the corruption of America, its corporatacracy and greed, no matter the propaganda of its politicians, nothing in the developed western world can hold a candle to the CURRENT genocide of China.
  - hungryhobo 6y ago
    What if the Uyghur genocide is indeed propaganda? How would you know? A lot of the Uyghur witness have been revealed to have ties to NED and the population of Uyghur minorities in china have increased. If there is an active genocide on the scale that's being reported, why have we not seen reports of mass exodus into neighbouring countries?
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >nothing in the developed western world can hold a candle to the CURRENT genocide of China Things that the developed Western world are causing are worse though. The UN had repeatedly called the ongoing Yemen situation the largest ongoing humanitarian crisis, killing over 200,000 people with millions facing starvation. The few mentions this gets generally are only used to demonize Iran when US generals have stated that we could end this war tomorrow if we wanted to. Yet you can claim that nothing the West does can hold a candle to China's acts. That is the aim of the propaganda. Yes, China is committing atrocities. They are not alone in this and the methods suggested to combat these actions are likely going to cause far more suffering.
  - alisonatwork 6y ago
    I agree with you, but making statements like these will just open you up to attacks from sophisticated CCP operatives and their allies. One very popular talking point is that mass incarceration in America has resulted in quadrupling of the prison population, putting millions of - mostly black - people behind bars. This is America's version of Uighur internment camps. Let's not even get started on the hundreds of thousands of deaths America has been responsible for around the world. It's hard to deny that - at least in the last 50 years (i.e. carefully avoiding Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution) - America has probably spread more misery and death around the world than China. However. The thing that I think is important to push on, is that in America, and in other free countries, there is open dialog on these issues. Reporters report on war crimes, millions take to the streets to protest, people take their leaders to account, politicians are voted out. Granted, history has shown that we have not been very successful at stopping these injustices, despite freedom of the press and democracy... But could they have been even worse without those freedoms? Yes. We know this because we can look at the awful record of authoritarian regimes in the 20th century. So I think it's more effective to not take the bait and pretend that the west is nowhere near as bad... Instead focus on the accountability that democratically-elected governments in free societies have, as opposed to single-party states like the PRC.
- contingencies 6y ago
  Agreed. If we were to evaluate China objectively we would have to recognize its huge achievements. Living in China for much of the last 20 years and being able to witness the changes first hand, the subject often comes up in conversation both here and overseas. Without getting bogged down in tangential statistics, I generally point out that at the beginning of the 20th century, China was roughly parallel to India in many macro-economic metrics. Now look at the difference. It is a viable superpower, a space power, the world's renewable energy technology and perhaps also deployment leader (certainly e-vehicles), the world's reforestation leader, a far more educated (eg. popularly literate and numerate) and healthy (well fed) population, a population no longer dangerously expanding, corruption is under control, world leading mobile payments, world leading logistics, and it is at the center of the world's global supply chain (and consumption!) for almost every industry. That said, China has many problems (living here is earth-shatteringly frustrating a lot of the time), @alisonatwork's comment is on the mark, and the achievements of the 20th century do not by any means excuse the grave and terrible costs, but to suggest that its government is inept in a hand-wave is shatteringly naive.
- underseacables 6y ago
  “ Why would an authoritarian control of information lead to only bad information getting out?” That’s the point: there is no bad information coming out of China, it’s always “positive,” like it was written by a PR team. No nation is perfect, but China works very hard so that nothing comes out of the country that is negative. By manipulating the news so that nothing is ever negative, you destroy all confidence in the accuracy of that reporting. If China was serious about being a world power, worthy of respect, they wouldn’t work so hard to hide all the negative, censor, and punish people who speak the truth.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >there is no bad information coming out of China Then what do you consider the article this post is discussing? Or all of the stories mentioned in your other post?
franklampard 6y ago
When you talk about China, are you talking about China as a country, or the Chinese government, or its people? If you are disgusted by some of the things the government did, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to specify that? The Trump administration is absolutely a disaster and “didn’t do anything warrant a positive article,” but I wouldn’t call the U.S. names because of the government.
- underseacables 6y ago
  There’s a parable here that is horrible apt: The NAZI’s ordered the murder of the Jewish people, but it was the German rank and file citizen that made the gas flow, and the ovens burn. I don’t think we can separate the government of China from its people. Did you forget about the recent leak of communist party members and how they’ve worked their way into senior government, and business positions? https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001 https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001
  - franklampard 6y ago
    Of course you can. Making equivalent what a government does to its country is myopic and racist. American people aren’t against climate change and exited Paris Climate Accord, the Trump administration did. Ordinary Chinese citizen did not censor the reporters, the government did. Your Nazi example makes no sense. I assume you can put some blame on the people who made the gas if they know its purpose. But you wouldn’t blame every German national during WWII for Genocide.
    - underseacables 6y ago
      Assuming for a moment that your comment is not sarcasm, I point you to first the excellent book “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” by Daniel Goldhagen which makes a solid case that had it not been for a compliant German citizenry, much of the Holocaust might never have happened. So you tell me: Who operates the Chinese concentration camps?
      - 6y ago
KPetrova 6y ago
China completely eliminated poverty inside China
- underseacables 6y ago
  As a new account, can you show us some evidence to back up your claim that is not from state run media? With respect, a lot of the comments here are starting to read like the same non-native English speakers that you often see rushing to defend China.
  - KPetrova 6y ago
    It's been covered by western media

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

boomboomsubban 6y ago

How would you have any idea what China does except through various news articles? Why would an authoritarian control of information lead to only bad information getting out? China does not have a great government, but American coverage of it is also extreme propaganda.

cowsandmilk 6y ago
There is a huge Chinese diaspora in the US with family members who still live in China. They are the source of information that most in the US rely on more than news articles.
underseacables 6y ago
And what is extreme propaganda? Is the Uyghur genocide propaganda? Is the Murder of Tibetans, aggression against Taiwan, imprisonment of journalists, propaganda? Show me American propaganda that does not have a strong correlation of truth, and I’ll show you concentration camps and disappeared citizens. When was the last time the U.S. government put a doctor in prison for trying to warn others about a deadly virus? No matter the corruption of America, its corporatacracy and greed, no matter the propaganda of its politicians, nothing in the developed western world can hold a candle to the CURRENT genocide of China.
- hungryhobo 6y ago
  What if the Uyghur genocide is indeed propaganda? How would you know? A lot of the Uyghur witness have been revealed to have ties to NED and the population of Uyghur minorities in china have increased. If there is an active genocide on the scale that's being reported, why have we not seen reports of mass exodus into neighbouring countries?
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >nothing in the developed western world can hold a candle to the CURRENT genocide of China Things that the developed Western world are causing are worse though. The UN had repeatedly called the ongoing Yemen situation the largest ongoing humanitarian crisis, killing over 200,000 people with millions facing starvation. The few mentions this gets generally are only used to demonize Iran when US generals have stated that we could end this war tomorrow if we wanted to. Yet you can claim that nothing the West does can hold a candle to China's acts. That is the aim of the propaganda. Yes, China is committing atrocities. They are not alone in this and the methods suggested to combat these actions are likely going to cause far more suffering.
- alisonatwork 6y ago
  I agree with you, but making statements like these will just open you up to attacks from sophisticated CCP operatives and their allies. One very popular talking point is that mass incarceration in America has resulted in quadrupling of the prison population, putting millions of - mostly black - people behind bars. This is America's version of Uighur internment camps. Let's not even get started on the hundreds of thousands of deaths America has been responsible for around the world. It's hard to deny that - at least in the last 50 years (i.e. carefully avoiding Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution) - America has probably spread more misery and death around the world than China. However. The thing that I think is important to push on, is that in America, and in other free countries, there is open dialog on these issues. Reporters report on war crimes, millions take to the streets to protest, people take their leaders to account, politicians are voted out. Granted, history has shown that we have not been very successful at stopping these injustices, despite freedom of the press and democracy... But could they have been even worse without those freedoms? Yes. We know this because we can look at the awful record of authoritarian regimes in the 20th century. So I think it's more effective to not take the bait and pretend that the west is nowhere near as bad... Instead focus on the accountability that democratically-elected governments in free societies have, as opposed to single-party states like the PRC.
contingencies 6y ago
Agreed. If we were to evaluate China objectively we would have to recognize its huge achievements. Living in China for much of the last 20 years and being able to witness the changes first hand, the subject often comes up in conversation both here and overseas. Without getting bogged down in tangential statistics, I generally point out that at the beginning of the 20th century, China was roughly parallel to India in many macro-economic metrics. Now look at the difference. It is a viable superpower, a space power, the world's renewable energy technology and perhaps also deployment leader (certainly e-vehicles), the world's reforestation leader, a far more educated (eg. popularly literate and numerate) and healthy (well fed) population, a population no longer dangerously expanding, corruption is under control, world leading mobile payments, world leading logistics, and it is at the center of the world's global supply chain (and consumption!) for almost every industry. That said, China has many problems (living here is earth-shatteringly frustrating a lot of the time), @alisonatwork's comment is on the mark, and the achievements of the 20th century do not by any means excuse the grave and terrible costs, but to suggest that its government is inept in a hand-wave is shatteringly naive.
underseacables 6y ago
“ Why would an authoritarian control of information lead to only bad information getting out?” That’s the point: there is no bad information coming out of China, it’s always “positive,” like it was written by a PR team. No nation is perfect, but China works very hard so that nothing comes out of the country that is negative. By manipulating the news so that nothing is ever negative, you destroy all confidence in the accuracy of that reporting. If China was serious about being a world power, worthy of respect, they wouldn’t work so hard to hide all the negative, censor, and punish people who speak the truth.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >there is no bad information coming out of China Then what do you consider the article this post is discussing? Or all of the stories mentioned in your other post?

franklampard 6y ago

When you talk about China, are you talking about China as a country, or the Chinese government, or its people? If you are disgusted by some of the things the government did, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to specify that? The Trump administration is absolutely a disaster and “didn’t do anything warrant a positive article,” but I wouldn’t call the U.S. names because of the government.

underseacables 6y ago
There’s a parable here that is horrible apt: The NAZI’s ordered the murder of the Jewish people, but it was the German rank and file citizen that made the gas flow, and the ovens burn. I don’t think we can separate the government of China from its people. Did you forget about the recent leak of communist party members and how they’ve worked their way into senior government, and business positions? https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001 https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001
- franklampard 6y ago
  Of course you can. Making equivalent what a government does to its country is myopic and racist. American people aren’t against climate change and exited Paris Climate Accord, the Trump administration did. Ordinary Chinese citizen did not censor the reporters, the government did. Your Nazi example makes no sense. I assume you can put some blame on the people who made the gas if they know its purpose. But you wouldn’t blame every German national during WWII for Genocide.
  - underseacables 6y ago
    Assuming for a moment that your comment is not sarcasm, I point you to first the excellent book “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” by Daniel Goldhagen which makes a solid case that had it not been for a compliant German citizenry, much of the Holocaust might never have happened. So you tell me: Who operates the Chinese concentration camps?
    - 6y ago

KPetrova 6y ago

China completely eliminated poverty inside China

underseacables 6y ago
As a new account, can you show us some evidence to back up your claim that is not from state run media? With respect, a lot of the comments here are starting to read like the same non-native English speakers that you often see rushing to defend China.
- KPetrova 6y ago
  It's been covered by western media