4 ms·

Generally speaking though, if I just want my stuff to work, and work together, I don't have many options. You must be one of those people who hasn't used Big

Generally speaking though, if I just want my stuff to work, and work together, I don't have many options. You must be one of those people who hasn't used Big Sur yet...Windows has issues, but it's inexcusable for Apple to have so many problems when they control literally all aspects of the hardware and software stack. That being said, your options for superior laptop hardware include the business models of Lenovo and Dell, or if you need the graphical capabilities, Alienware or ASUS gaming laptops. Windows laptops are hardier than their Apple counterparts at every price point. Everyone I know with an Apple laptop has had to have it replaced under warranty (in a few cases, multiple times), but my Latitudes from college and law school and my Lenovos from old jobs still work. I couldn't even tell you whether Dell or Lenovo warranties are any good because I've never had to use them. I got my cousins an HP laptop from Best Buy about a decade ago, and it's traveled all across India, in trains, on elephants, been dropped a few dozen times, and other than disgustingly sticky keys and a dented frame, it still works like new. And with the superior hardware, you also get the freedom to install whatever software you want, to use whatever hardware you want, to not worry about whether software you purchased last year will still run on you computer, it's truly liberating. Sure, it's not as shiny or skeumorphic as Mac, but the trade-off is infinitely greater usability. I don't mean to sound like a Windows fanboy, but once you understand why Windows is so much better you'll never want to use macOS again.

sitzkrieg 6y ago
i bought a mbp a few years ago and do not use it full time and nevertheless ive had constant, ridiculous problems the entire time. not juat fresh post release stuff.and everytime i search i find many others who do too. there is a lot of blinders in the community i think. Anyway osx is basically a piece of garbage anymore that breaks obnoxious inexcusable stuff regularly. recent favorite because this is what people used to use an example of it just working https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252174979 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252174979 with that said, linux is a joke on daily desktop stuff too with exception for very narrow use cases
- andrewzah 6y ago
  "linux is a joke on daily desktop stuff too with exception for very narrow use cases" In my experience linux has been better than osx by a long shot. For general uses and gaming. I only boot into windows for some games and programs like autodesk fusion. My parents had very little issues adapting to mint with the cinnamon DE. I fail to see how modern linux is a "joke".
  - MrDresden 6y ago
    I did away with the windows gaming partition earlier this year and went 100% Linux on the desktop (still have a mbp as a laptop). Their Proton innitiative is fantastic.
  - sitzkrieg 6y ago
    well, you can run valgrind on linux :-) meanwhile i have to recompile drivers to get a mouse sensitivity that isnt insanely too fast with an 800dpi mouse and various other fun things for desktop use
  - TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
    I ran Linux on the desktop for 19 years before moving on to macOS. I can assure anyone that it's perfectly serviceable as a daily driver unless there's some particular piece of software you need which isn't supported.
    - sjellis 6y ago
      This is the issue: > unless there's some particular piece of software you need which isn't supported. Lots of people need to run very specific pieces of software for their work, or their pastimes. If you want to switch to Linux, you have to look at all of the software that you use, and replace the products that don't have Linux versions. If you can't, then you can't switch.
    - bfrog 6y ago
      I find as a developer there are very very few things I need windows for. Every year I need to start up windows less than the last. High end PCB design is probably the last on the list. If I had to do ddr with bga SoC I'd probably pony up for Altium, windows only. For the 4 layer hobbies I've actually designed kicad works great!
qeternity 6y ago
Big Sur 11.0 (and betas) were an absolute mess. However 11.1 is genuinely a great bit of kit.
jonnycomputer 6y ago
You don't know me. But I used my 2012 MBP everyday, and its still going strong. Never had a single problem with it.
TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
And I knew a guy who had just bought a 2013 MBP, and slipped on ice, and landed on his bag, and bent the thing in about a 20-degree angle around his hip, and even the dang screen still worked. Isn't anecdotal "data" fun?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
> I don't mean to sound like a Windows fanboy, but once you understand why Windows is so much better you'll never want to use macOS again. You DO understand that you're talking to a group of people that can and do run about every operating system available, right? I mean, you get that don't you? Every one on here runs everything. We are all well aware of Windows, and yet most of us seem to choose either Mac or Linux where possible. In fact, I'd venture to say most -- not all, of course, but most -- of us only use Windows where necessary.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  I'd venture to say that the overwhelming majority of people on HN can and do use Windows at home, with a minority using Mac, and a rounding error using *nix as their primary home OS of choice.
  - TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
    Well, I was going to say that, given the amount and types of coverage Windows and macOS get around here over the past many years, I would have thought the evidence pointed quite to the contrary. But you have 10x the karma I do, so maybe you're more in tune with what's going on.
    - majewsky 6y ago
      If we're playing the karma game, then I submit that I find GP's assertion highly unlikely. We have a lot of people on here dealing with Windows in a professional setting (like myself), but Linux being a rounding error does not match with the discussions on this site in any way.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
        Linux is discussed frequently in this site in development contexts, but almost never in the context of home use.

sitzkrieg 6y ago

i bought a mbp a few years ago and do not use it full time and nevertheless ive had constant, ridiculous problems the entire time. not juat fresh post release stuff.and everytime i search i find many others who do too. there is a lot of blinders in the community i think. Anyway osx is basically a piece of garbage anymore that breaks obnoxious inexcusable stuff regularly. recent favorite because this is what people used to use an example of it just working https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252174979 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252174979 with that said, linux is a joke on daily desktop stuff too with exception for very narrow use cases

andrewzah 6y ago
"linux is a joke on daily desktop stuff too with exception for very narrow use cases" In my experience linux has been better than osx by a long shot. For general uses and gaming. I only boot into windows for some games and programs like autodesk fusion. My parents had very little issues adapting to mint with the cinnamon DE. I fail to see how modern linux is a "joke".
- MrDresden 6y ago
  I did away with the windows gaming partition earlier this year and went 100% Linux on the desktop (still have a mbp as a laptop). Their Proton innitiative is fantastic.
- sitzkrieg 6y ago
  well, you can run valgrind on linux :-) meanwhile i have to recompile drivers to get a mouse sensitivity that isnt insanely too fast with an 800dpi mouse and various other fun things for desktop use
- TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
  I ran Linux on the desktop for 19 years before moving on to macOS. I can assure anyone that it's perfectly serviceable as a daily driver unless there's some particular piece of software you need which isn't supported.
  - sjellis 6y ago
    This is the issue: > unless there's some particular piece of software you need which isn't supported. Lots of people need to run very specific pieces of software for their work, or their pastimes. If you want to switch to Linux, you have to look at all of the software that you use, and replace the products that don't have Linux versions. If you can't, then you can't switch.
  - bfrog 6y ago
    I find as a developer there are very very few things I need windows for. Every year I need to start up windows less than the last. High end PCB design is probably the last on the list. If I had to do ddr with bga SoC I'd probably pony up for Altium, windows only. For the 4 layer hobbies I've actually designed kicad works great!

qeternity 6y ago

Big Sur 11.0 (and betas) were an absolute mess. However 11.1 is genuinely a great bit of kit.

jonnycomputer 6y ago

You don't know me. But I used my 2012 MBP everyday, and its still going strong. Never had a single problem with it.

TheRealDunkirk 6y ago

And I knew a guy who had just bought a 2013 MBP, and slipped on ice, and landed on his bag, and bent the thing in about a 20-degree angle around his hip, and even the dang screen still worked. Isn't anecdotal "data" fun?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

TheRealDunkirk 6y ago

> I don't mean to sound like a Windows fanboy, but once you understand why Windows is so much better you'll never want to use macOS again. You DO understand that you're talking to a group of people that can and do run about every operating system available, right? I mean, you get that don't you? Every one on here runs everything. We are all well aware of Windows, and yet most of us seem to choose either Mac or Linux where possible. In fact, I'd venture to say most -- not all, of course, but most -- of us only use Windows where necessary.

gamblor956 6y ago
I'd venture to say that the overwhelming majority of people on HN can and do use Windows at home, with a minority using Mac, and a rounding error using *nix as their primary home OS of choice.
- TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
  Well, I was going to say that, given the amount and types of coverage Windows and macOS get around here over the past many years, I would have thought the evidence pointed quite to the contrary. But you have 10x the karma I do, so maybe you're more in tune with what's going on.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    If we're playing the karma game, then I submit that I find GP's assertion highly unlikely. We have a lot of people on here dealing with Windows in a professional setting (like myself), but Linux being a rounding error does not match with the discussions on this site in any way.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      Linux is discussed frequently in this site in development contexts, but almost never in the context of home use.