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How do people get the next job after Apple? Let's say someone has worked there for a good couple of years - are they not allowed to share anything about that pe

How do people get the next job after Apple? Let's say someone has worked there for a good couple of years - are they not allowed to share anything about that period in the job interviews or on Linkedin?

tmpz22 6y ago
That sounds like an intentional feature for Apple.
bitwize 6y ago
They say "I worked at Apple".
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  Probably not enough to get a better position in another FAANG.
  - bitwize 6y ago
    If you can brandish a business card that says "User Interface Inventor" or something equally high level at the best technology company in the world, you can pretty much write your own ticket at any of the other FANGs, which are also-rans in comparison.
    - burntoutfire 6y ago
      It opens avenues for abuse though - for example, you can say that you were the UX lead on something big, while omitting that it was an internal HR app or something else where UX is an afterthought. Even better, you can claim that you were in fact a senior product manager of let's say iCloud and who can say otherwise (it's not easily verifiable on Linkedin or in any other way).
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        They can call your previous employer and confirm your claims, you know.
        FlyingAvatar 6y ago
        All pretty much any company will say about you is the dates you worked and the title you had. They’re not going answer anything beyond that by policy. I would also say this happens pretty rarely.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        As such, I assume they will say you were not in fact an iCloud lead but were actually an ICT2 engineer. Plus, there’s always the risk that your former coworker is on your interviewer team.
      - xyzelement 6y ago
        >> Even better, you can claim that you were in fact a senior product manager of let's say iCloud and who can say otherwise I guess that's a hypothetical risk, but in reality they'll ask you a few behavioral/situational questions and if your caliber is off they'll know pretty easily.
      - mattnewton 6y ago
        This absolutely happens in my (anecdotal) experience. But it's not a problem that affects Apple really.
  - mattnewton 6y ago
    It largely worked for me, though I did have some external websites I could point to. I think there interviewing parties probably thought I worked on cooler projects than I did, honestly.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      What did you work on?
      - tobinfricke 6y ago
        No comment
  - ActorNightly 6y ago
    Not better, but people move laterally then get promoted. FAANG game is about doing what you need to get that cushy 300k a year senior sde salary in any of the companies, and after that you do whatever.
xenadu02 6y ago
You can talk about things you worked on after they ship and are publicly known. It's important to remember people who really love their job and do well don't tend to leave so you almost always get stories from people who don't fit that description (though not always - sometimes people leave a workplace for personal reasons).
- wanderer2323 6y ago
  People leave all the time, for all sorts of reasons, e.g. to get side-promoted, to work on something different, to get more money. I've seen the opposite of your thesis -- that people who have opportunities and actively work on their careers tend to change jobs often so whoever does not must be stagnating.
xyzelement 6y ago
>> How do people get the next job after Apple? Let's say someone has worked there for a good couple of years - are they not allowed to share anything about that period in the job interviews or on Linkedin? You have to be creative and toe the line. I have just spent some time interviewing after working at a place with a hardcore non disclosure agreement. My LinkedIn for this job is a brief blurb that reveals the scope of my work/seniority without revealing details about the company. In the Apple case it could be something like "led team of X engineers developing the core server side infrastructure for payments." This is OK because everyone knows that Apple deals with payments and that there must be people working on the backend of it, and its meaningful that you led people in that context. (or whatever one did.) My resume goes into a tiny bit more detail but also says "details protected by NDA." It's important because w/o saying that it just looks like you had no accomplishments. In interviews you can usually manage by being abstract enough. EG: you can say "I had to design a system that handled millions of transactions per day" and then talk about high level things that go into the design of such things, you don't need to say what the system specifically did or exactly how many millions of hits it got. You can be explicit about the NDA here too and people have always been very respectful of it. However, in my case - most of my experience was prior to this company so even if the question is "tell me about how you did X at your last job", I just say "that gets too close to the NDA, but let me tell you how I did that at my previous role." Basically, it's not a problem, and you gain way more from having Apple on your resume than you lose from not speaking about certain details.
- thr0w__4w4y 6y ago
  Interviewing someone like yourself isn't hard at all... I've interviewed hundreds of people (which isn't thin air here on HN) and I've pretty much seen it all. Generally speaking, in an interview, I'm trying to assess /what you can do/. Which is not "what you have done". I've interviewed at least 2 people, who were hired against my recommendation, in different companies, that clearly fleeced everyone else. In both cases, the candidate walked the walk & talked the talk, but something seemed off. "Sociopath" is a term that is thrown around loosely but I think it applies to both candidates (one man, one woman). In both cases, they'd convinced most of the interviewers they were very strong in areas they'd never professionally tackled before. I'm less interested in what the candidate claims to have done; that could be reality, or a well-rehearsed and "lived" fantasy. But by talking about hard engineering problems in real-time, with "curve balls", I can usually tell if the candidate has "the right stuff" or not. Even if it's just aptitude. I can train smart people who handle themselves well. But if the candidate can't field tough questions and unexpected (off-script) questions, that's enough for me to pass on the candidate at the level I'm hiring.
xvector 6y ago
Street cred! More realistically, interviewers delve into specifics. Applied to a computer security position? Well, you'll get interview questions that touch those. You don't have to hide your knowledge - you just have to hide what exactly you worked on at Apple.

tmpz22 6y ago

That sounds like an intentional feature for Apple.

bitwize 6y ago

They say "I worked at Apple".

burntoutfire 6y ago
Probably not enough to get a better position in another FAANG.
- bitwize 6y ago
  If you can brandish a business card that says "User Interface Inventor" or something equally high level at the best technology company in the world, you can pretty much write your own ticket at any of the other FANGs, which are also-rans in comparison.
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    It opens avenues for abuse though - for example, you can say that you were the UX lead on something big, while omitting that it was an internal HR app or something else where UX is an afterthought. Even better, you can claim that you were in fact a senior product manager of let's say iCloud and who can say otherwise (it's not easily verifiable on Linkedin or in any other way).
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      They can call your previous employer and confirm your claims, you know.
      - FlyingAvatar 6y ago
        All pretty much any company will say about you is the dates you worked and the title you had. They’re not going answer anything beyond that by policy. I would also say this happens pretty rarely.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        As such, I assume they will say you were not in fact an iCloud lead but were actually an ICT2 engineer. Plus, there’s always the risk that your former coworker is on your interviewer team.
    - xyzelement 6y ago
      >> Even better, you can claim that you were in fact a senior product manager of let's say iCloud and who can say otherwise I guess that's a hypothetical risk, but in reality they'll ask you a few behavioral/situational questions and if your caliber is off they'll know pretty easily.
    - mattnewton 6y ago
      This absolutely happens in my (anecdotal) experience. But it's not a problem that affects Apple really.
- mattnewton 6y ago
  It largely worked for me, though I did have some external websites I could point to. I think there interviewing parties probably thought I worked on cooler projects than I did, honestly.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    What did you work on?
    - tobinfricke 6y ago
      No comment
- ActorNightly 6y ago
  Not better, but people move laterally then get promoted. FAANG game is about doing what you need to get that cushy 300k a year senior sde salary in any of the companies, and after that you do whatever.

xenadu02 6y ago

You can talk about things you worked on after they ship and are publicly known. It's important to remember people who really love their job and do well don't tend to leave so you almost always get stories from people who don't fit that description (though not always - sometimes people leave a workplace for personal reasons).

wanderer2323 6y ago
People leave all the time, for all sorts of reasons, e.g. to get side-promoted, to work on something different, to get more money. I've seen the opposite of your thesis -- that people who have opportunities and actively work on their careers tend to change jobs often so whoever does not must be stagnating.

xyzelement 6y ago

>> How do people get the next job after Apple? Let's say someone has worked there for a good couple of years - are they not allowed to share anything about that period in the job interviews or on Linkedin? You have to be creative and toe the line. I have just spent some time interviewing after working at a place with a hardcore non disclosure agreement. My LinkedIn for this job is a brief blurb that reveals the scope of my work/seniority without revealing details about the company. In the Apple case it could be something like "led team of X engineers developing the core server side infrastructure for payments." This is OK because everyone knows that Apple deals with payments and that there must be people working on the backend of it, and its meaningful that you led people in that context. (or whatever one did.) My resume goes into a tiny bit more detail but also says "details protected by NDA." It's important because w/o saying that it just looks like you had no accomplishments. In interviews you can usually manage by being abstract enough. EG: you can say "I had to design a system that handled millions of transactions per day" and then talk about high level things that go into the design of such things, you don't need to say what the system specifically did or exactly how many millions of hits it got. You can be explicit about the NDA here too and people have always been very respectful of it. However, in my case - most of my experience was prior to this company so even if the question is "tell me about how you did X at your last job", I just say "that gets too close to the NDA, but let me tell you how I did that at my previous role." Basically, it's not a problem, and you gain way more from having Apple on your resume than you lose from not speaking about certain details.

thr0w__4w4y 6y ago
Interviewing someone like yourself isn't hard at all... I've interviewed hundreds of people (which isn't thin air here on HN) and I've pretty much seen it all. Generally speaking, in an interview, I'm trying to assess /what you can do/. Which is not "what you have done". I've interviewed at least 2 people, who were hired against my recommendation, in different companies, that clearly fleeced everyone else. In both cases, the candidate walked the walk & talked the talk, but something seemed off. "Sociopath" is a term that is thrown around loosely but I think it applies to both candidates (one man, one woman). In both cases, they'd convinced most of the interviewers they were very strong in areas they'd never professionally tackled before. I'm less interested in what the candidate claims to have done; that could be reality, or a well-rehearsed and "lived" fantasy. But by talking about hard engineering problems in real-time, with "curve balls", I can usually tell if the candidate has "the right stuff" or not. Even if it's just aptitude. I can train smart people who handle themselves well. But if the candidate can't field tough questions and unexpected (off-script) questions, that's enough for me to pass on the candidate at the level I'm hiring.

xvector 6y ago

Street cred! More realistically, interviewers delve into specifics. Applied to a computer security position? Well, you'll get interview questions that touch those. You don't have to hide your knowledge - you just have to hide what exactly you worked on at Apple.