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A good friend of mine worked at Apple in a mid-to-senior role for about two years; when he joined he told me not to ask him anything so I didn't. Shortly after

A good friend of mine worked at Apple in a mid-to-senior role for about two years; when he joined he told me not to ask him anything so I didn't. Shortly after he left we were having a drink, and I say: "Just tell me this, did you like it there?" He thought for a fair bit and eventually said "no comment".

mam2 6y ago
Most useless comment ever lmfao ><.
academi 6y ago
Mastery of something to serve or help and seeing good things happen from that is one of the things that bring happiness to me. Often, I’ve blamed my employers for being miserable, but I realize now that they can contribute to happiness or unhappiness but they aren’t the primary reason for frustration or unhappiness. My health, primarily my mental health, affects how I act and how I interpret things. Even the best people that aren’t mentally unwell can be unhappy. However, being unhappy most of the time is mental illness, whether it’s because of what seems like an unreasonably difficult environment or one that’s seemingly reasonable. Some may bounce out of it and others can’t seem to, but being stuck in a mode of “I had promise and they killed it” doesn’t help anyone. In this case maybe the “no comment” was a joke, maybe it was a bad fit, but those that aren’t unhappy most of the time should get help.
- dman 6y ago
  Lot of insight in this comment. Thanks for writing it!
- the_arun 6y ago
  Last line > but those that aren’t unhappy most of the time should get help. I think you meant "but those that aren’t happy most of the time should get help".
eplanit 6y ago
To be honest, that doesn't sound like a "good" friend to me. Doesn't trust you enough to share not only any work details, but not even an opinion either? Maybe too much self-importance?
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  You've never worked in a high-security environment, have you? My father was in the CIA, in the late '40s thru '60s. We didn't find out until the late '90s. One of his brothers was almost certainly a Company Man, too, but that has never been confirmed; even though he’s been dead for decades. Apple's OPSEC is probably tighter than the CIA's.
  - eplanit 6y ago
    Yes I have. Guarding national security is one thing. Keeping a new consumer gadget secret is another. Apple isn't so important.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      >Apple isn't so important. You forgot you're on HN where Apple is a religion who's products people here swear are irreplaceable and that nothing in the world ever comes close in polish. Every products they launch tends to break news sites and comment sections. This wouldn't happen if they wouldn't be so secretive about it. They're also a trillion dollar company who's products shape the lifestyle of many (the infamous shame of the green/blue bubble in chats).
    - bitexploder 6y ago
      To society as a whole, yes. To the company itself, there is definitely competitive advantage to protect trade secrets so harshly. It’s hard to argue it doesn’t have some value for Apple. I think it’s a little extreme and disagree with the degree to which they enforce it on all of their teams, even knew where it clearly has minimal competitive advantage.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
mayankkaizen 6y ago
I'm baffled. Why couldn't he say he was happy at Apple if he was happy? The "no comment" answer kinda implies he wasn't really happy.
- bedhead 6y ago
  Because you sign various employment contracts that contain all sorts of landmines even after you’re gone, and out of self-preservation it’s a helluva lot easier to just not comment.
  - throwaway45349 6y ago
    They can't be that all-encompassing as to not be able to say if you were happy...?
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      In today's social media world where people are willing to post any gossip on the internet for some meaningless likes / points, I think its actually prudent to measure your words carefully before you voice them. Especially if the law is involved.
      - jeromegv 6y ago
        If you’re afraid that your friend will share on social media your name and your state of happiness about your previous job, May be they aren’t great friends.
        xwdv 6y ago
        A person could be a great friend until they’re not.
    - spacedcowboy 6y ago
      They’re not. It was either a joke or he was trying to be edgy.
aplummer 6y ago
You’re allowed to talk about what it’s like to work at Apple (good or bad), just not the work at Apple.
- jldugger 6y ago
  Yea, but if you did, nobody would accept the offer.
  - aplummer 6y ago
    Its a big company and I’m sure the experience on different teams is varied - but I really like working at Apple. It’s hard work but much more interesting than my previous jobs, and people _really_ believe in the values like privacy which I like.
    - xvector 6y ago
      Apple has a no-bullshit work culture (you aren't infantilized like at many other Silicon Valley companies) and the employees really do value and care about their work and its impact in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately, this doesn't extend to upper-management, which is why we see things like Apple 'forgetting' to implement cloud-wide E2EE at the behest of the FBI, or turning over iCloud servers to the Chinese government, creating a massive corporate-sponsored state-surveillance network.
ttul 6y ago
Sounds like NSA. A friend worked there and couldn’t even tell her husband what she did. Like not even a general idea.
- chris11 6y ago
  One benefit of that is that you can't take work home, although I think Covid is forcing them to make some changes.
- sneak 6y ago
  If you leak from NSA they either attempt to assassinate you, or you get put in prison. Due to the massive illegal spying programs run by the NSA, they have lots of avenues for finding out who leaked the data. If you leak from Apple (and they find out) then Apple can sue you and maybe get a civil judgement against you take your assets and possessions, but you remain a free person. Huge difference.
baby 6y ago
That’s the reason why I think I couldn’t work for Apple.
thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
I worked at Apple for 5 years in two different groups and this really isn’t that normal. The person in the article worked on experimental hardware which is not most people’s experience. Most people have no problem talking about what they work on, the technology they use, and what they like about Apple. Unfortunately rarely people find those blog posts interesting enough to share leaving a disproportionate number of posts like in the article.

mam2 6y ago

Most useless comment ever lmfao ><.

academi 6y ago

Mastery of something to serve or help and seeing good things happen from that is one of the things that bring happiness to me. Often, I’ve blamed my employers for being miserable, but I realize now that they can contribute to happiness or unhappiness but they aren’t the primary reason for frustration or unhappiness. My health, primarily my mental health, affects how I act and how I interpret things. Even the best people that aren’t mentally unwell can be unhappy. However, being unhappy most of the time is mental illness, whether it’s because of what seems like an unreasonably difficult environment or one that’s seemingly reasonable. Some may bounce out of it and others can’t seem to, but being stuck in a mode of “I had promise and they killed it” doesn’t help anyone. In this case maybe the “no comment” was a joke, maybe it was a bad fit, but those that aren’t unhappy most of the time should get help.

dman 6y ago
Lot of insight in this comment. Thanks for writing it!
the_arun 6y ago
Last line > but those that aren’t unhappy most of the time should get help. I think you meant "but those that aren’t happy most of the time should get help".

eplanit 6y ago

To be honest, that doesn't sound like a "good" friend to me. Doesn't trust you enough to share not only any work details, but not even an opinion either? Maybe too much self-importance?

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
You've never worked in a high-security environment, have you? My father was in the CIA, in the late '40s thru '60s. We didn't find out until the late '90s. One of his brothers was almost certainly a Company Man, too, but that has never been confirmed; even though he’s been dead for decades. Apple's OPSEC is probably tighter than the CIA's.
- eplanit 6y ago
  Yes I have. Guarding national security is one thing. Keeping a new consumer gadget secret is another. Apple isn't so important.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    >Apple isn't so important. You forgot you're on HN where Apple is a religion who's products people here swear are irreplaceable and that nothing in the world ever comes close in polish. Every products they launch tends to break news sites and comment sections. This wouldn't happen if they wouldn't be so secretive about it. They're also a trillion dollar company who's products shape the lifestyle of many (the infamous shame of the green/blue bubble in chats).
  - bitexploder 6y ago
    To society as a whole, yes. To the company itself, there is definitely competitive advantage to protect trade secrets so harshly. It’s hard to argue it doesn’t have some value for Apple. I think it’s a little extreme and disagree with the degree to which they enforce it on all of their teams, even knew where it clearly has minimal competitive advantage.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago

mayankkaizen 6y ago

I'm baffled. Why couldn't he say he was happy at Apple if he was happy? The "no comment" answer kinda implies he wasn't really happy.

bedhead 6y ago
Because you sign various employment contracts that contain all sorts of landmines even after you’re gone, and out of self-preservation it’s a helluva lot easier to just not comment.
- throwaway45349 6y ago
  They can't be that all-encompassing as to not be able to say if you were happy...?
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    In today's social media world where people are willing to post any gossip on the internet for some meaningless likes / points, I think its actually prudent to measure your words carefully before you voice them. Especially if the law is involved.
    - jeromegv 6y ago
      If you’re afraid that your friend will share on social media your name and your state of happiness about your previous job, May be they aren’t great friends.
      - xwdv 6y ago
        A person could be a great friend until they’re not.
  - spacedcowboy 6y ago
    They’re not. It was either a joke or he was trying to be edgy.

aplummer 6y ago

You’re allowed to talk about what it’s like to work at Apple (good or bad), just not the work at Apple.

jldugger 6y ago
Yea, but if you did, nobody would accept the offer.
- aplummer 6y ago
  Its a big company and I’m sure the experience on different teams is varied - but I really like working at Apple. It’s hard work but much more interesting than my previous jobs, and people _really_ believe in the values like privacy which I like.
  - xvector 6y ago
    Apple has a no-bullshit work culture (you aren't infantilized like at many other Silicon Valley companies) and the employees really do value and care about their work and its impact in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately, this doesn't extend to upper-management, which is why we see things like Apple 'forgetting' to implement cloud-wide E2EE at the behest of the FBI, or turning over iCloud servers to the Chinese government, creating a massive corporate-sponsored state-surveillance network.

ttul 6y ago

Sounds like NSA. A friend worked there and couldn’t even tell her husband what she did. Like not even a general idea.

chris11 6y ago
One benefit of that is that you can't take work home, although I think Covid is forcing them to make some changes.
sneak 6y ago
If you leak from NSA they either attempt to assassinate you, or you get put in prison. Due to the massive illegal spying programs run by the NSA, they have lots of avenues for finding out who leaked the data. If you leak from Apple (and they find out) then Apple can sue you and maybe get a civil judgement against you take your assets and possessions, but you remain a free person. Huge difference.

baby 6y ago

That’s the reason why I think I couldn’t work for Apple.

thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago

I worked at Apple for 5 years in two different groups and this really isn’t that normal. The person in the article worked on experimental hardware which is not most people’s experience. Most people have no problem talking about what they work on, the technology they use, and what they like about Apple. Unfortunately rarely people find those blog posts interesting enough to share leaving a disproportionate number of posts like in the article.