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Dynamic typing never was in the interest of the human developer but in the interest of the lazy language designer. This release looks interesting. Let's see ho

Dynamic typing never was in the interest of the human developer but in the interest of the lazy language designer. This release looks interesting. Let's see how type annotations work out in real life and if people use them.

joelbluminator 6y ago
Yay lets argue again about types vs dynamic! I'm sure throwing another opinion on this older than time debate would finally settle things.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  The fact that all dynamic languages have adopted some kind of static verification tool has settled the discussion. It wouldn't be needed if unit tests were enough as it used to be sold.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    The fact that all static languages are adding an Any type means the discussion is settled. Lol. How has this settled anything? You think Ruby devs from now on are all gonna use Sorbet or RBS? I highly doubt it. Some very unique companies like Shopify or Github, which don't really represent the average Ruby shop, may make a limited use of these tools. The vast majority won't.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Actually they are catching up with Algol features.
    - stewbrew 6y ago
      Okay you convinced me to stick with my assessment of ruby. I regret every single time I have chosen to write something in ruby. I guess this release won't change that if nobody uses these features.
      - joelbluminator 6y ago
        No, it won't. If you don't like it you don't like it, it's alright. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything most of the time, stick to what makes you happy and productive.
      - cercatrova 6y ago
        Then don't write in Ruby, write in what you want.
    - pdimitar 6y ago
      They add an "Any" type because they have no choice, what are you on about? You can't change a dynamic language to a statically typed language overnight. Or over a year. Or five. You are not furthering your argument, you are just reasserting the status quo.
    - theon144 6y ago
      >The fact that all static languages are adding an Any type means the discussion is settled. They really aren't, though. No statically typed languages which started off as such, to my knowledge, have added an Any type (casting magic notwithstanding). You must be thinking of TypeScript and other "gradually typed" languages, where it's a necessity for interop with existing code. The rest of your comment, unfortunately, does not really put forth any coherent argument, so I would tend to weakly agree with the parent comment.
      - joelbluminator 6y ago
        I meant C# dynamic type actually. So I was wrong to mention Any.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Which was added to support COM variant types as main goal, and as side effect of trying to make the CLR a good target for Python and Ruby, an effort that has mostly died and is kept around just for backwards compatibility.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        joelbluminator 6y ago
        Quick Google shows this thing is still being used, for quite a few use cases. Maybe it's not super popular but what do u base it dying out on? https://code-maze.com/advanced-csharp-dynamic-type/#whyusedynamic https://code-maze.com/advanced-csharp-dynamic-type/#whyusedy...
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Its current support in .NET Core and closed issues with won't fix. https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/158 https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/158
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > The fact that all dynamic languages have adopted some kind of static verification tool has settled the discussion. No, it hasn't. The fact that there is utility to static type checking that is sometimes a net win so it is better, ceteris paribus, for a language to have it available does not “settle the discussion” about the claim that dynamic typing was pure lazy design that was never in the interest of human developers.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Type inference.
chrisseaton 6y ago
Why do you have to abuse people as lazy because they prefer a different typing discipline to you?
yxhuvud 6y ago
It was, back when all mainstream statically typed languages had atrocious UX and there really was no good example of a language with ergonomic typing. Even now, there are very few languages around which has that. The most ergonomic I know of is Crystal, which is not surprising considering its heritage.

joelbluminator 6y ago

Yay lets argue again about types vs dynamic! I'm sure throwing another opinion on this older than time debate would finally settle things.

pjmlp 6y ago
The fact that all dynamic languages have adopted some kind of static verification tool has settled the discussion. It wouldn't be needed if unit tests were enough as it used to be sold.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  The fact that all static languages are adding an Any type means the discussion is settled. Lol. How has this settled anything? You think Ruby devs from now on are all gonna use Sorbet or RBS? I highly doubt it. Some very unique companies like Shopify or Github, which don't really represent the average Ruby shop, may make a limited use of these tools. The vast majority won't.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Actually they are catching up with Algol features.
  - stewbrew 6y ago
    Okay you convinced me to stick with my assessment of ruby. I regret every single time I have chosen to write something in ruby. I guess this release won't change that if nobody uses these features.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      No, it won't. If you don't like it you don't like it, it's alright. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything most of the time, stick to what makes you happy and productive.
    - cercatrova 6y ago
      Then don't write in Ruby, write in what you want.
  - pdimitar 6y ago
    They add an "Any" type because they have no choice, what are you on about? You can't change a dynamic language to a statically typed language overnight. Or over a year. Or five. You are not furthering your argument, you are just reasserting the status quo.
  - theon144 6y ago
    >The fact that all static languages are adding an Any type means the discussion is settled. They really aren't, though. No statically typed languages which started off as such, to my knowledge, have added an Any type (casting magic notwithstanding). You must be thinking of TypeScript and other "gradually typed" languages, where it's a necessity for interop with existing code. The rest of your comment, unfortunately, does not really put forth any coherent argument, so I would tend to weakly agree with the parent comment.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      I meant C# dynamic type actually. So I was wrong to mention Any.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Which was added to support COM variant types as main goal, and as side effect of trying to make the CLR a good target for Python and Ruby, an effort that has mostly died and is kept around just for backwards compatibility.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        joelbluminator 6y ago
        Quick Google shows this thing is still being used, for quite a few use cases. Maybe it's not super popular but what do u base it dying out on? https://code-maze.com/advanced-csharp-dynamic-type/#whyusedynamic https://code-maze.com/advanced-csharp-dynamic-type/#whyusedy...
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Its current support in .NET Core and closed issues with won't fix. https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/158 https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/158
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > The fact that all dynamic languages have adopted some kind of static verification tool has settled the discussion. No, it hasn't. The fact that there is utility to static type checking that is sometimes a net win so it is better, ceteris paribus, for a language to have it available does not “settle the discussion” about the claim that dynamic typing was pure lazy design that was never in the interest of human developers.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Type inference.

chrisseaton 6y ago

Why do you have to abuse people as lazy because they prefer a different typing discipline to you?

yxhuvud 6y ago

It was, back when all mainstream statically typed languages had atrocious UX and there really was no good example of a language with ergonomic typing. Even now, there are very few languages around which has that. The most ergonomic I know of is Crystal, which is not surprising considering its heritage.