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I'm not sure what code you write or what it's for, but in the real world, sometimes we deal with buggy, archaic and downright bizarre code that we didn't write,

I'm not sure what code you write or what it's for, but in the real world, sometimes we deal with buggy, archaic and downright bizarre code that we didn't write, and sometimes we have deadlines. So, yes. I use a debugger, so that I can spend some time at home too. Because as nice as the office is, it's summertime, and there's beer in my fridge. Back when I was seventeen and staying up all night writing a video game engine though, I definitely would have been onboard with the whole print debugging idea.

phaylon 15y ago
Nice ad hominem, doesn't work though. I'm 30 and have been developing for 14 years now. And yes, it's real world. And it's mostly Perl, so I do know about "buggy, archaic and downright bizarre code." I'm still more productive with print statements than having a separate system poke around in the applications. But again, I must be wrong because I'm doing it different, right? So the only option can be that I'm too young, don't know what I'm talking about, or just lack experience in general, right? There couldn't be a possible way that someone else uses a different solution that works just as fine for them, right? Considering that I never said "Don't use a debugger." only that "I don't need a debugger", you guys seem pretty worked up considering that you're claiming you're the more relaxed one. It's a tool, don't take it personally that I have a different method that works. It doesn't invalidate yours. At least not in my view.
eropple 15y ago
Honest question (as I avoid Perl like the plague) - is there an introspective debugger on par with Visual Studio's in Perl-land? Because if you're leaning on print statements in absence of appropriate tooling, I can understand that. When the tooling is available, however, I am skeptical of claims as to enhanced productivity or any other positivity coming from it.
- phaylon 15y ago
  I never said I have enhanced productivity over using a debugger. I said I have no worse productivity. There's a debugger, there's a REPL, and in general lots of tools which I use if I see the need (the NYTProf profiler would be one). Using a debugger in this scenario (with an interpreted language) just doesn't give me any enhanced productivity over what I'm doing now.
- jrockway 15y ago
  There's a way to get a good answer from someone, compare his language of choice to a deadly disease. And then ask if it's as good as some proprietary crapware. What does visual studio? Show the value of variables in separate windows as the code runs? Yes, the perl debugger can do that. You can also inject code and poke the entire program state. The perl debugger is a perl function that is called for every line and every subroutine entry. Use that to build whatever tool you want, and good luck finding that in Visual Studio.
  - eropple 15y ago
    "Proprietary crapware." Yeah, that's the sign of a really well-balanced, competent developer.

phaylon 15y ago

Nice ad hominem, doesn't work though. I'm 30 and have been developing for 14 years now. And yes, it's real world. And it's mostly Perl, so I do know about "buggy, archaic and downright bizarre code." I'm still more productive with print statements than having a separate system poke around in the applications. But again, I must be wrong because I'm doing it different, right? So the only option can be that I'm too young, don't know what I'm talking about, or just lack experience in general, right? There couldn't be a possible way that someone else uses a different solution that works just as fine for them, right? Considering that I never said "Don't use a debugger." only that "I don't need a debugger", you guys seem pretty worked up considering that you're claiming you're the more relaxed one. It's a tool, don't take it personally that I have a different method that works. It doesn't invalidate yours. At least not in my view.

eropple 15y ago

Honest question (as I avoid Perl like the plague) - is there an introspective debugger on par with Visual Studio's in Perl-land? Because if you're leaning on print statements in absence of appropriate tooling, I can understand that. When the tooling is available, however, I am skeptical of claims as to enhanced productivity or any other positivity coming from it.

phaylon 15y ago
I never said I have enhanced productivity over using a debugger. I said I have no worse productivity. There's a debugger, there's a REPL, and in general lots of tools which I use if I see the need (the NYTProf profiler would be one). Using a debugger in this scenario (with an interpreted language) just doesn't give me any enhanced productivity over what I'm doing now.
jrockway 15y ago
There's a way to get a good answer from someone, compare his language of choice to a deadly disease. And then ask if it's as good as some proprietary crapware. What does visual studio? Show the value of variables in separate windows as the code runs? Yes, the perl debugger can do that. You can also inject code and poke the entire program state. The perl debugger is a perl function that is called for every line and every subroutine entry. Use that to build whatever tool you want, and good luck finding that in Visual Studio.
- eropple 15y ago
  "Proprietary crapware." Yeah, that's the sign of a really well-balanced, competent developer.