6 ms·

It's unfair for people to get help from people willing to help, but it's not unfair for people to get help from people against their will?

cercatrova 6y ago
Yes, because one is choosing which charity to give to, and the other is enforcing fairness equally, at least for basic needs.
- bigyikes 6y ago
  Fairness equally, according to your definition of “fairness” and “equally”
exabrial 6y ago
I agree with you, 100%. When we remove the opportunity for people to be charitable, we force those in need to accept goods or services from means that are often ill begotten.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  How have we removed the opportunity to be charitable?
  - exabrial 6y ago
    Forcibly taking 33 cents out of every dollar the are rightfully entitled to.
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      “Rightfully entitled” isn’t something that everybody agrees on. But let me ask you, if taxes were cut by 75%, what percentage of that money do you think would end up getting donated to charity? 2%?
      - exabrial 6y ago
        It doesn't matter if it were to drop to 2% (and it's highly unlikely it would) because the end does not justify there means. But I'm curious what part of my own sweat and labor I'm not entitled to?
        UncleMeat 6y ago
        > It doesn't matter if it were to drop to 2% (and it's highly unlikely it would) because the end does not justify there means. If you want to be a "taxes are theft" person that's fine. But the context of this was charitable giving and you are now completely dropping the original claim that taxes prevent charity.
    - hestefisk 6y ago
      So if income taxes were cut to 0, do you think people would suddenly donate 33% of their income with no impact on social safety net?
UncleMeat 6y ago
The receiving isn’t unfair. The fact that many people do not receive anything is unfair. Charity is not globally organized so it cannot allocate resources across all needy populations. For an extreme example consider the famous gofundmes that raise millions and the numerous people in similar situations who receive nothing.
hestefisk 6y ago
I’m afraid I don’t get your point. The point around fairness is that taxes enforce a basic guarantee (a social contract), relying on civil society / community to create a safety net doesn’t.

cercatrova 6y ago

Yes, because one is choosing which charity to give to, and the other is enforcing fairness equally, at least for basic needs.

bigyikes 6y ago
Fairness equally, according to your definition of “fairness” and “equally”

exabrial 6y ago

I agree with you, 100%. When we remove the opportunity for people to be charitable, we force those in need to accept goods or services from means that are often ill begotten.

UncleMeat 6y ago
How have we removed the opportunity to be charitable?
- exabrial 6y ago
  Forcibly taking 33 cents out of every dollar the are rightfully entitled to.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    “Rightfully entitled” isn’t something that everybody agrees on. But let me ask you, if taxes were cut by 75%, what percentage of that money do you think would end up getting donated to charity? 2%?
    - exabrial 6y ago
      It doesn't matter if it were to drop to 2% (and it's highly unlikely it would) because the end does not justify there means. But I'm curious what part of my own sweat and labor I'm not entitled to?
      - UncleMeat 6y ago
        > It doesn't matter if it were to drop to 2% (and it's highly unlikely it would) because the end does not justify there means. If you want to be a "taxes are theft" person that's fine. But the context of this was charitable giving and you are now completely dropping the original claim that taxes prevent charity.
  - hestefisk 6y ago
    So if income taxes were cut to 0, do you think people would suddenly donate 33% of their income with no impact on social safety net?

UncleMeat 6y ago

The receiving isn’t unfair. The fact that many people do not receive anything is unfair. Charity is not globally organized so it cannot allocate resources across all needy populations. For an extreme example consider the famous gofundmes that raise millions and the numerous people in similar situations who receive nothing.

hestefisk 6y ago

I’m afraid I don’t get your point. The point around fairness is that taxes enforce a basic guarantee (a social contract), relying on civil society / community to create a safety net doesn’t.