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> it tends to be the case that you can't suggest to people "You could try doing things differently" because that will be taken as blaming the victim Sometimes

> it tends to be the case that you can't suggest to people "You could try doing things differently" because that will be taken as blaming the victim Sometimes it takes a friend (or stranger) to make such suggestions. Lonely and depressed people are typically trapped inside their heads, so they need some kind of external stimulus to help them understand that they are in control of their life. The truth sometimes hurts, but calling it victim blaming is nonsense.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I was talking about (online) support groups. It's a statement about a specific environment and it is based on enormous firsthand experience as the person usually being accused of victim blaming for the crime of trying to be helpful.
- mechnesium 6y ago
  I’ve also found it incredibly difficult to help depressed/lonely people without experiencing some kind of backlash. I have a jobless friend who still lives with his parents, and is always lamenting about how terrible his life is, as if phishing for help. When I offer help, he becomes combative, so I try to just avoid the topic until one day he’s ready for change in his life.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    It's mostly about moderating, but maybe it will be helpful to you/someone: https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/a-pragmatic-approach-to-thorny-people.html https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/a-pragmatic-appr...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - gnat 6y ago
      I have always struggled, in real life and online, with people who talk about their complex lives. This gives great advice for how to approach the situation with empathy for them and for the group. Thanks for posting this!
  - tw25532050 6y ago
    Your friend is angry, and likely at himself, even if he won't admit it. I've been that way too, which is probably why this comment from Jean-Luc Picard (TNG: S04E12) struck a chord with me: "I think when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like old leather. And, finally, it becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way."
  - avhception 6y ago
    To add a perspective here: Being offered help, especially in a way that says "why don't you do X?" can often provoke a reaction that tries to justify oneself. You want to feel validated in your self-pity, and if the solution to your struggles is as easy as "just doing X" all of your bad feelings are your own fault, too. That makes you feel even shittier. So you need claim that it's impractical advice to evade that. My best guess: Your friend is not looking for advice, they're looking for validation of their feelings when lamenting about their life. But maybe this is a "what you want vs. what you need" situation.
    - 33degrees 6y ago
      I’ll add to this and say that people are mostly looking for validation when discussing problems, and that should always be your first response. If you feel you have valuable advice to give, ask them if they want it and make sure they’ll actually be receptive.
pschimi 6y ago
I've been at crossroads at several points in my life and realized that I was in too deep to trust my own decision making to be sound. Getting on the internets and asking total strangers for their opinion helped me snap out of it. Even though I mostly didn't take their advice, being confronted with the aloof views of randos with no stake in my dilemma was what I needed to see the big picture beyond the walls that had already closed in on me. In either of these situations，I'm certain a friend would have been either too compassionate or too afraid to appear immoral to give me the cold, hard truth. Hooray for assholes that don't give a fuck =D

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I was talking about (online) support groups. It's a statement about a specific environment and it is based on enormous firsthand experience as the person usually being accused of victim blaming for the crime of trying to be helpful.

mechnesium 6y ago
I’ve also found it incredibly difficult to help depressed/lonely people without experiencing some kind of backlash. I have a jobless friend who still lives with his parents, and is always lamenting about how terrible his life is, as if phishing for help. When I offer help, he becomes combative, so I try to just avoid the topic until one day he’s ready for change in his life.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  It's mostly about moderating, but maybe it will be helpful to you/someone: https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/a-pragmatic-approach-to-thorny-people.html https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/a-pragmatic-appr...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gnat 6y ago
    I have always struggled, in real life and online, with people who talk about their complex lives. This gives great advice for how to approach the situation with empathy for them and for the group. Thanks for posting this!
- tw25532050 6y ago
  Your friend is angry, and likely at himself, even if he won't admit it. I've been that way too, which is probably why this comment from Jean-Luc Picard (TNG: S04E12) struck a chord with me: "I think when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like old leather. And, finally, it becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way."
- avhception 6y ago
  To add a perspective here: Being offered help, especially in a way that says "why don't you do X?" can often provoke a reaction that tries to justify oneself. You want to feel validated in your self-pity, and if the solution to your struggles is as easy as "just doing X" all of your bad feelings are your own fault, too. That makes you feel even shittier. So you need claim that it's impractical advice to evade that. My best guess: Your friend is not looking for advice, they're looking for validation of their feelings when lamenting about their life. But maybe this is a "what you want vs. what you need" situation.
  - 33degrees 6y ago
    I’ll add to this and say that people are mostly looking for validation when discussing problems, and that should always be your first response. If you feel you have valuable advice to give, ask them if they want it and make sure they’ll actually be receptive.

pschimi 6y ago

I've been at crossroads at several points in my life and realized that I was in too deep to trust my own decision making to be sound. Getting on the internets and asking total strangers for their opinion helped me snap out of it. Even though I mostly didn't take their advice, being confronted with the aloof views of randos with no stake in my dilemma was what I needed to see the big picture beyond the walls that had already closed in on me. In either of these situations，I'm certain a friend would have been either too compassionate or too afraid to appear immoral to give me the cold, hard truth. Hooray for assholes that don't give a fuck =D