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The comment might not be a perfect, but I don't think it is "disgustingly misleading". Although the current trade problems are indeed caused by protective measu

The comment might not be a perfect, but I don't think it is "disgustingly misleading". Although the current trade problems are indeed caused by protective measures against the new Covid19 strain, as you wrote. They are still representative of what will probably happen if normal border crossing for wares and goods is prohibited from one day to another. So, I'd say it is relevant, but not the same thing.

mrpopo 6y ago
Yes, the word for what you described is "misleading". Do not try to normalize it as it brings about confusion.
djmobley 6y ago
And yet for some reason we’re discussing this in a thread about a free trade deal that’s just been agreed between the UK and EU, which allows free movement of goods without tariffs or quotas.
- vr46 6y ago
  It’s not free movement, it’s still subject to paperwork, customs inspections, etc, right? There’s just no tariffs but there are still standards.
hardlianotion 6y ago
It's not relevant, as it in no way simulates what would happen even with no deal.
- iso947 6y ago
  Yes no deal would be far worse - months of disruption, not days.
  - zyemuzu 6y ago
    Do you have any insight whatsoever to back up such an empty claim?
jariel 6y ago
"hey are still representative of what will probably happen if normal border crossing for wares and goods is prohibited from one day to another. " This is patently false, bordering on scare-mongering. Canada does 80% of their trade with the US, who has much more power than them. The shelves are never empty in Canada. Every other nation in fact is largely in the same boat: Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Singapore - they all depend on partners for trade. It works, and the shelves are never empty. In addition the US and Canada have a customs union with smooth flow of good without lengthy border checks - AND - at the same time are free to develop their own foreign trade policies and deals. Canada could theoretically increase their GDP and literally everyone of them would be a several shades richer immediately by 'joining the USA' but it's not exactly a movement. Respectively, there's no reason that the UK couldn't have something similar with the EU - and for some reason there's all sorts of hyperbole to suggest somehow it couldn't work. UK citizens voted to join the EEC, and never really did for the EU, if there was a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon in 2007 that passed in the UK ... I bet Brexit would have never happened - there'd have been too much legitimacy in a recent vote and the leaders could not have justified a referendum. The 'empty shelves' / 'rationing medicine' memes are ridiculous. The EU is 80% about trade, it always has been, and very few people had existential qualms with that. There would hardly be such a thing as a 'Eurosceptic' if they focused on that.
- owowow 6y ago
  American farm policy would be very destructive for Canadian farmers if they were to join the USA. Farm income would get gutted for Canadian farmers and they would end up in the same crappy boat as American farmers. GDP might increase for Canada overall by joining the USA, but portraying it as having no economic downsides for Canadians is disingenuous.
  - jariel 6y ago
    I didn't portray it as 'having no downsides'. Every trade deal / national-merger has upsides and downsides. The challenge is to see them clearly. There is quite a lot of scary rhetoric about 'trade failure' about Brexit that is frankly politicized, because outside of some temporary disruption, trade will go on. Caveats - yes. Failure - no. Moroever, nobody seems to look at longstanding deals that work at least in some ways, particularly NAFTA/USMCA. In particular, I find it really problematic that the notion of sovereignty is portrayed as 'xenophobic' in the case of Brexit, but 'idealized' in the case of Scottish indyref. And of course more theoretically, the notion of 'Canada joining the USA' (which is not as outrageous at it seems, it almost happened a few times only a few generations ago!) - would be find stupendous outrage among Canadians. Not known for their over nationalism, Canadians would give you a serious earful about that ... and nobody would bat an eye or think there's something wrong with it. The UK is not Scotland and is not Canada, of course, but the hyperbole about the issue is unwarranted. Underneath the outrage again, lays bare the fact that the EU is mostly a 'really good economic deal' whereas the rest of it is fuzzy. Perhaps the most 'personally impactful issue' - movement - could easily be achieved with a simple work program. NAFTA/USMCA allows anyone with specific accreditation to work across the border for 6 years with a stamp at the border - easy peasy. Something along those lines could have been achievable by the EEC without having to go full EU. I'm not saying it's ideal, or even one way is better than the other, rather, that the issue is overly politicized in the press, and the EU-specific union is too oft presented as 'the only solution' , when really, it's not. There are other ways. In fact, given a post COVID world, and that we now have true real-time digitization ... it may be possible to even move away from the Euro and go to 'National Euros' - basically to give back the power of monetary policy to individual nations (which is a huge constraint right now, probably the #1 problem that even pro-EU nations have) while at the same time achieving a pan-European financial policy. This would be one example of a truly modern approach to currency, but it can't happen if 1/2 of the political forces are pushing for integrated political union.
stale2002 6y ago
The comment attempted to equate current day UK, with that of the soviet union. I would absolutely call an attempt to equate those two things as "disgustingly misleading".
maest 6y ago
Supermarket shelves also got emptied ahead of the first covid lockdown in the UK.

mrpopo 6y ago

Yes, the word for what you described is "misleading". Do not try to normalize it as it brings about confusion.

djmobley 6y ago

And yet for some reason we’re discussing this in a thread about a free trade deal that’s just been agreed between the UK and EU, which allows free movement of goods without tariffs or quotas.

vr46 6y ago
It’s not free movement, it’s still subject to paperwork, customs inspections, etc, right? There’s just no tariffs but there are still standards.

hardlianotion 6y ago

It's not relevant, as it in no way simulates what would happen even with no deal.

iso947 6y ago
Yes no deal would be far worse - months of disruption, not days.
- zyemuzu 6y ago
  Do you have any insight whatsoever to back up such an empty claim?

jariel 6y ago

"hey are still representative of what will probably happen if normal border crossing for wares and goods is prohibited from one day to another. " This is patently false, bordering on scare-mongering. Canada does 80% of their trade with the US, who has much more power than them. The shelves are never empty in Canada. Every other nation in fact is largely in the same boat: Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Singapore - they all depend on partners for trade. It works, and the shelves are never empty. In addition the US and Canada have a customs union with smooth flow of good without lengthy border checks - AND - at the same time are free to develop their own foreign trade policies and deals. Canada could theoretically increase their GDP and literally everyone of them would be a several shades richer immediately by 'joining the USA' but it's not exactly a movement. Respectively, there's no reason that the UK couldn't have something similar with the EU - and for some reason there's all sorts of hyperbole to suggest somehow it couldn't work. UK citizens voted to join the EEC, and never really did for the EU, if there was a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon in 2007 that passed in the UK ... I bet Brexit would have never happened - there'd have been too much legitimacy in a recent vote and the leaders could not have justified a referendum. The 'empty shelves' / 'rationing medicine' memes are ridiculous. The EU is 80% about trade, it always has been, and very few people had existential qualms with that. There would hardly be such a thing as a 'Eurosceptic' if they focused on that.

owowow 6y ago
American farm policy would be very destructive for Canadian farmers if they were to join the USA. Farm income would get gutted for Canadian farmers and they would end up in the same crappy boat as American farmers. GDP might increase for Canada overall by joining the USA, but portraying it as having no economic downsides for Canadians is disingenuous.
- jariel 6y ago
  I didn't portray it as 'having no downsides'. Every trade deal / national-merger has upsides and downsides. The challenge is to see them clearly. There is quite a lot of scary rhetoric about 'trade failure' about Brexit that is frankly politicized, because outside of some temporary disruption, trade will go on. Caveats - yes. Failure - no. Moroever, nobody seems to look at longstanding deals that work at least in some ways, particularly NAFTA/USMCA. In particular, I find it really problematic that the notion of sovereignty is portrayed as 'xenophobic' in the case of Brexit, but 'idealized' in the case of Scottish indyref. And of course more theoretically, the notion of 'Canada joining the USA' (which is not as outrageous at it seems, it almost happened a few times only a few generations ago!) - would be find stupendous outrage among Canadians. Not known for their over nationalism, Canadians would give you a serious earful about that ... and nobody would bat an eye or think there's something wrong with it. The UK is not Scotland and is not Canada, of course, but the hyperbole about the issue is unwarranted. Underneath the outrage again, lays bare the fact that the EU is mostly a 'really good economic deal' whereas the rest of it is fuzzy. Perhaps the most 'personally impactful issue' - movement - could easily be achieved with a simple work program. NAFTA/USMCA allows anyone with specific accreditation to work across the border for 6 years with a stamp at the border - easy peasy. Something along those lines could have been achievable by the EEC without having to go full EU. I'm not saying it's ideal, or even one way is better than the other, rather, that the issue is overly politicized in the press, and the EU-specific union is too oft presented as 'the only solution' , when really, it's not. There are other ways. In fact, given a post COVID world, and that we now have true real-time digitization ... it may be possible to even move away from the Euro and go to 'National Euros' - basically to give back the power of monetary policy to individual nations (which is a huge constraint right now, probably the #1 problem that even pro-EU nations have) while at the same time achieving a pan-European financial policy. This would be one example of a truly modern approach to currency, but it can't happen if 1/2 of the political forces are pushing for integrated political union.

stale2002 6y ago

The comment attempted to equate current day UK, with that of the soviet union. I would absolutely call an attempt to equate those two things as "disgustingly misleading".

maest 6y ago

Supermarket shelves also got emptied ahead of the first covid lockdown in the UK.