6 ms·

It's not just impractical. It's a complete nonstarter in any competitive job market (like the bay area). First, contract to hire is a pure negative for the emp

by btmorex 15y ago

It's not just impractical. It's a complete nonstarter in any competitive job market (like the bay area). First, contract to hire is a pure negative for the employee. People can "try a company" out just fine with a full time offer and then quit if it's not a good fit. Second, it's far easier to find good people by poaching from other companies than it is by traditional means. No one is going to quit their job for a 3 week contract even if they're really unhappy at their current job. So, with this approach, you've just removed the biggest pool of talented prospects there is.

gdilla 15y ago
agreed. But Yelp and Facebook do a micro version of this for job applicants. They give you a test - usually along the lines of, mock up something to make our platform better. You have 24 Hrs. Go. Since they're prol two of the hottest places to work, not least because they're two of the biggest pre-IPO joints out there, they can get away with this. Even if you get rejected (and I did), they get your idea (and mine were great, I tell you! Fully mocked up). Well, I bombed the intws but they did like my mocks. You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards.
- bostonpete 15y ago
  > You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards. Prostitutes get paid at least. You were a rape victim.
  - kelnos 15y ago
    A little crass, but agreed. That actually bothers me a bit. You do work as part of an interview, aren't offered a job, and aren't compensated for the work done, but the interviewing company gets to keep and use the work. I'm assuming the applicant would have had to sign something to that effect at the beginning of the interview process, but it just feels like a raw deal to me.
    - erikpukinskis 15y ago
      Ask for compensation.
    - qq66 15y ago
      The interviewing company does not get to keep and use the work; even if the applicant signed something, if consideration was not given, it would be difficult to use the work.
  - wmil 15y ago
    More like a starlet who got the casting couch.
swampthing 15y ago
Doesn't seem like you noticed, but the author offered alternatives to the standard 3-week contracting approach.
erikpukinskis 15y ago
You didn't read the article. They offer 5 day (few days off plus weekend) contracts, or even weekend contracts. They will wait until you have a vacation. If your company is a total bore and no one in the bay area thinks what you're doing is at all exciting, then you're right. The ONLY thing you have to offer is a signed contract with a very high number on it. But if you're actually doing something personally exciting to someone, they will absolutely take a few days out of their routine (with compensation) to explore that. Honestly, if someone isn't excited enough about my company to put a few days into it without a full time contract, I don't want them in my company. I've put a few YEARS of my life into my company without such a contract. I'd expect my employees to have at least a fraction of that passion.
- mattmanser 15y ago
  IANAL but as far as I can see this strategy is not without risk. After all, they are already being paid on those vacation days, are they not technically working for their existing company? What happens when your new employee's old company turns round and says 'Hey, we just found out about your wonderful scheme about testing out our employees when they're still under our contract. That means our intellectual property is in your code base. That employee has no negotiation power and you clearly knew that, our price for this bespoke job is $100,000. You've already got the goods, payment terms 1 day. Thanks.'.
  - kurin 15y ago
    I know there are some asshole IP contracts out there, but I think even so a company would have a hard time claiming ownership of a project an employee did for someone else, in his own time.
- reynolds 15y ago
  I don't spend my vacations working for other people. You also can't expect a contractor to be passionate about your company when they have no vested interest in its success.
  - 15y ago
seanp2k 15y ago
>"No one is going to quit their job for a 3 week contract even if they're really unhappy at their current job. So, with this approach, you've just removed the biggest pool of talented prospects there is." THANK YOU (THIS THIS THIS)

by btmorex 15y ago

gdilla 15y ago

agreed. But Yelp and Facebook do a micro version of this for job applicants. They give you a test - usually along the lines of, mock up something to make our platform better. You have 24 Hrs. Go. Since they're prol two of the hottest places to work, not least because they're two of the biggest pre-IPO joints out there, they can get away with this. Even if you get rejected (and I did), they get your idea (and mine were great, I tell you! Fully mocked up). Well, I bombed the intws but they did like my mocks. You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards.

bostonpete 15y ago
> You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards. Prostitutes get paid at least. You were a rape victim.
- kelnos 15y ago
  A little crass, but agreed. That actually bothers me a bit. You do work as part of an interview, aren't offered a job, and aren't compensated for the work done, but the interviewing company gets to keep and use the work. I'm assuming the applicant would have had to sign something to that effect at the beginning of the interview process, but it just feels like a raw deal to me.
  - erikpukinskis 15y ago
    Ask for compensation.
  - qq66 15y ago
    The interviewing company does not get to keep and use the work; even if the applicant signed something, if consideration was not given, it would be difficult to use the work.
- wmil 15y ago
  More like a starlet who got the casting couch.

swampthing 15y ago

Doesn't seem like you noticed, but the author offered alternatives to the standard 3-week contracting approach.

erikpukinskis 15y ago

You didn't read the article. They offer 5 day (few days off plus weekend) contracts, or even weekend contracts. They will wait until you have a vacation. If your company is a total bore and no one in the bay area thinks what you're doing is at all exciting, then you're right. The ONLY thing you have to offer is a signed contract with a very high number on it. But if you're actually doing something personally exciting to someone, they will absolutely take a few days out of their routine (with compensation) to explore that. Honestly, if someone isn't excited enough about my company to put a few days into it without a full time contract, I don't want them in my company. I've put a few YEARS of my life into my company without such a contract. I'd expect my employees to have at least a fraction of that passion.

mattmanser 15y ago
IANAL but as far as I can see this strategy is not without risk. After all, they are already being paid on those vacation days, are they not technically working for their existing company? What happens when your new employee's old company turns round and says 'Hey, we just found out about your wonderful scheme about testing out our employees when they're still under our contract. That means our intellectual property is in your code base. That employee has no negotiation power and you clearly knew that, our price for this bespoke job is $100,000. You've already got the goods, payment terms 1 day. Thanks.'.
- kurin 15y ago
  I know there are some asshole IP contracts out there, but I think even so a company would have a hard time claiming ownership of a project an employee did for someone else, in his own time.
reynolds 15y ago
I don't spend my vacations working for other people. You also can't expect a contractor to be passionate about your company when they have no vested interest in its success.
- 15y ago

seanp2k 15y ago

>"No one is going to quit their job for a 3 week contract even if they're really unhappy at their current job. So, with this approach, you've just removed the biggest pool of talented prospects there is." THANK YOU (THIS THIS THIS)