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Take a Model 3 on an autocross track or even a windy mountain road. Then take any BMW or Audi priced $10k-$20k lower (and not the boat SUVs) and tell me which o

Take a Model 3 on an autocross track or even a windy mountain road. Then take any BMW or Audi priced $10k-$20k lower (and not the boat SUVs) and tell me which one is more fun to drive. Also, a Roadster is definitely not a "mainstream Tesla." I used that word to specifically exclude the Roadster, as it's $250k and a completely different discussion. I agree that using the term "dog" was an exaggeration.

xiphias2 6y ago
> Take a Model 3 on an autocross track or even a windy mountain road Why should I spend a lot of money to improve the 1% of use cases I don't care about? My 2 biggest worries when I'm driving a BMW are hitting somebody who is walking through the red light in the rain and looking at his mobile phone, and going into a pothole. I want the car with the best automatic emergency system and the room to improve, and Tesla is far the best in this category.
rconti 6y ago
Ok, I have a Model 3 and I've autocrossed it and driven it on windy mountain roads, and I have done the same with many BMWs including my own. And the roadster I was referring to was the original one, not the one that, as far as I know, doesn't exist (though, I can't say I pay a lot of attention to Tesla news because the fanboyism is an absolutely toxic combination of .. well, fanboyism, and automotive ignorance). I don't think the Model 3 is quite as fun as a manual transmission non-turbo 6cyl BMW 3 series. I get a lot of tactile enjoyment from shifting, I enjoy the sounds of a nice engine, and I enjoy the power delivery of an internal combustion engine. Of course, all of these things that I enjoy are actually things that make the vehicle slower compared to a dual clutch or modern automatic, or a boosted engine of a similar size, or an electric motor with no gearbox required to keep the engine near its powerband; they're all anachronisms. The extra mass of the Tesla is less of a drawback to me over (say) a turbo BMW 3 series automatic, vice comparing that turbo automatic 3er to a manual BMW 3 series without a turbo. None of these cars can really truly be called "nimble", but I'm quite pleased with the balance, cornering ability and especially outright grip of our RWD Model 3 (with Michelin P4s tires replacing the eco crap of course). It's all a sliding scale, but yes, my primary objection is putting the Teslas in a class entirely below all German sedans. On a mountain road I'd happily take the Model 3 over an A4, even if not the "right" BMW 3 series for the road.

xiphias2 6y ago

> Take a Model 3 on an autocross track or even a windy mountain road Why should I spend a lot of money to improve the 1% of use cases I don't care about? My 2 biggest worries when I'm driving a BMW are hitting somebody who is walking through the red light in the rain and looking at his mobile phone, and going into a pothole. I want the car with the best automatic emergency system and the room to improve, and Tesla is far the best in this category.

rconti 6y ago

Ok, I have a Model 3 and I've autocrossed it and driven it on windy mountain roads, and I have done the same with many BMWs including my own. And the roadster I was referring to was the original one, not the one that, as far as I know, doesn't exist (though, I can't say I pay a lot of attention to Tesla news because the fanboyism is an absolutely toxic combination of .. well, fanboyism, and automotive ignorance). I don't think the Model 3 is quite as fun as a manual transmission non-turbo 6cyl BMW 3 series. I get a lot of tactile enjoyment from shifting, I enjoy the sounds of a nice engine, and I enjoy the power delivery of an internal combustion engine. Of course, all of these things that I enjoy are actually things that make the vehicle slower compared to a dual clutch or modern automatic, or a boosted engine of a similar size, or an electric motor with no gearbox required to keep the engine near its powerband; they're all anachronisms. The extra mass of the Tesla is less of a drawback to me over (say) a turbo BMW 3 series automatic, vice comparing that turbo automatic 3er to a manual BMW 3 series without a turbo. None of these cars can really truly be called "nimble", but I'm quite pleased with the balance, cornering ability and especially outright grip of our RWD Model 3 (with Michelin P4s tires replacing the eco crap of course). It's all a sliding scale, but yes, my primary objection is putting the Teslas in a class entirely below all German sedans. On a mountain road I'd happily take the Model 3 over an A4, even if not the "right" BMW 3 series for the road.