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> Now they’re just clueless assholes. I’ve seen it in their IT systems, their design teams are either on crack or got outsourced to 4 year olds and their produc

> Now they’re just clueless assholes. I’ve seen it in their IT systems, their design teams are either on crack or got outsourced to 4 year olds and their product/sales gurus are a mix of bean counters incapable of producing an original idea and a bunch of lifers running on nepotism. Can confirm. BMW used to be quite innovative, at least on the scale of German automakers, with their connect services. We have a fairly well equipped and fairly new BMW which includes those services. Not only can they get quite expensive (especially their incredibly pretentious concierge service), but their smartphone integration is awful at least (CarPlay is a subscription). The only connected drive services that could be remotely useful are so bad, they're basically unusable. > It’s starting to happen and will get even worse, BMW will have a tough decade at least. The only innovation BMW was able to come up with in the last few years is increasing the size of the front grill. I am not sure if BMW is incompetent, ignorant, uncreative or if they're just aholes (looking at managements behavior during the pandemic, that's certainly the case). I doubt that BMW will be able to maintain its independence as a car manufacturer in the long run, unless there are some dramatic changes in line. My guess is that they'll be acquired by some other car manufacturer, maybe Daimler (although they face similar challenges), but more likely some huge Chinese company.

whydoineedthis 6y ago
Idk, I was in a new bmw recently and thought it was cool. Driver assist to stay in lanes. Full touch dash across the entire dashboard. Verbal assistant worked well and was able to adjust settings intuitively. I'm still too poor to buy one new, but it didn't seem completely without innovation.
- rwc 6y ago
  These things are common in similarly-classed vehicles and have been for many years.
  - astura 6y ago
    They are even common on mid and higher-trimed economy cars now (I have all those features on mine)
- moooo99 6y ago
  My 2017 Seat Leon costs significantly less than a comparable BMW 1. I have a decent navigation system, voice controls, Android Auto and CarPlay, touch infotainment (not a fan), and lane assist, emergency break assist and several others. A friend of mine bought a BMW 1 which cost 12k more than my car (MSRP) and, excluding the gps navigation, has none of those features. Those aren't innovations, those are almost standard in lots of vehicles.
  - whydoineedthis 6y ago
    Lol. I just looked at that car online. Comparing it to a bmw is laughable in every sense. Performance, not comparable. Safety rating, not comparable. Exterior and interior styling, laughably non existent in the Leon. Give me a break.
gifnamething 6y ago
BMW operate like a company that have given up on expanding their addressable market and now seek to extract as much value from it as possible. In a vacuum, this is common and makes sense, but not at the cusp of a revolution in that industry. I spent a long time sceptical about that other car company. But I've realised I can never overestimate how much the traditional companies will screw up.
- dingaling 6y ago
  I think it's the opposite problem, they're trying to expand to fill every niche and in so doing have lost focus on what made them appealing. Just look at their model range nowadays, it's vast, confusing and insipid. Very little of it is inspiring unless you think 650bhp in an SUV is interesting.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Very little of it is inspiring unless you think 650bhp in an SUV is interesting. Depends on where you live. I drive a really small but acceptably fast car, but I'm frequently surrounded by giant lifted trucks that block all visibility. I want a taller vehicle just so I don't die, but don't want to give up the 6 second 0-60.
    - ska 6y ago
      6 second 0-60 isn't that hard to hit, and doesn't need anything like 650 bhp, even on a larger frame. Unless you are sub 3s, mostly what you need is a bit of torque lower in the range, and a suspension & tires that can deliver it to the road. This, along with transmission ratios, trades off against other things people often want in their cars. hp above 300ish is mostly about what happens (or doesn't happen) at triple digit speeds, at least for regular passenger vehicles not towing large loads. The latter is all about torque available at what range but that can push you into higher hp territory.
petre 6y ago
The new front grill is atrocious. I saw their new electric model. An unispired SUV on steroids with a butt ugly grill.
- ahartmetz 6y ago
  If that isn't for the Chinese market, I am completely baffled about their so-called design. What we really don't need is more cars that look like angry predators or "gaming" PC cases.
  - hhh 6y ago
    This is the illuminated one, yeah? They look decent in person, I saw a few of the pre-prod grills at $WORK. I don't think it was worth how much went into making them though. A lot of individual components in that grille, and an absolute astonishing amount of development had to be done by suppliers.
    - petre 6y ago
      Illuminated? It's clearly for the Chinese market then. I'm talking about the grille on the iX. I wonder what's next, an electric X6 with this grill, the pinnacle of ugliness? Compare that with the M2 which is a looker and a badass car.
      - asciimike 6y ago
        Speaking as an M2 owner (and an E36 owner before that), can confirm it's an excellent looking and performing car--arguably the last "enthusiast" car BMW has produced. I'm also pretty annoyed with the current direction, and if I get another car (performance or otherwise) it's very unlikely to be a BMW.
        enos_feedler 6y ago
        Likewise, I just picked up a 2021 M2 which I heard will switch to something new in 2022. I love the car. You can feel all of the engineering and craft in the driving experience.
dhbanes 6y ago
CarPlay is no longer a subscription. They are also one of the few automakers to implement wireless CarPlay and it works flawlessly.
- TomVDB 6y ago
  As much as I prefer CarPlay over the default UI of most cars, I had to disable it on my 2019 i3 because it was an unusable disaster.
  - dhbanes 6y ago
    Interesting. My car has iDrive 6 (not the latest version) and is a 2018 MY and it’s been fantastic.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  Agree. You can see my post above at how upset I was to learn the 240i does not support the digital key for 2021. However, wireless carplay has been a saving grace. Pairs nicely with a MagSafe charger since you can get full car integration without needing to ever plug in.
Rafert 6y ago
> CarPlay is a subscription I've been looking at BMWs this year and IIRC they backed out of this after the backlash: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/bmw-u-turns-apple-carplay-subscription-fees-uk https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/bmw-u-turns-ap... - agree with your other points though.
enos_feedler 6y ago
BMW went on stage at WWDC this year to talk about Digital Key for the car. Their marketing page said it works on all 2021 models. The detailed list says Series 1, 2, 3, etc.. I thought this feature is really cool. I am going to buy this car for it. I talked to 2 dealers and confirmed the feature. I looked up all the info online but could not find any more details. I bought a 2021 m240i for $50,000 USD. I could have got a heavily discounted 2020 model off the lot. But no, I wanted to be _sure_ I got the digital key. I was really looking forward to using this feature. Guess what.. no digital key. Frantically go searching the marketing pages. I now find a compatibility table buried deep in their web site (this document didn't exist at time of purchase) where it has a #7 footnote on the series 2: must be 235i cars running iDrive 7. Thanks BMW! Get your shit together! Anyway, this anecdote is just a taste of what is coming for the car industry. Carplay is only a small preview of the level of integration consumers are going to expect over the next 5-10 years. If they can't sort out a digital key across their lineup, they are kind of fucked.
- humanlion87 6y ago
  Is it possible for your to return the car and get a different model since the dealership obviously lied to you? Seems like a huge premium to pay for a non-existent feature.
- Tomdarkness 6y ago
  If it's any conciliation personally I think you have the nicer car mechanically. The m240i is a rwd straight 6 with the legendary zf 8hp gearbox whilst the newer m235i is an awd 4 cylinder with some inferior aisin gearbox.
  - enos_feedler 6y ago
    Thanks! I think so too which is why I didn't put up a fuss about it. I really wanted this car a lot. Lot's of therapy sessions to get over the fact I need to use a real key though.
- bryanmgreen 6y ago
  IOT is going to utterly trash the auto industry (which admittedly is already in poor shape) and make an even larger mess of the environment by turning cars into pre-mature waste - because you mentioned, it's not been thoughtfully implemented (and I doubt will be). Think that digital key is going to work in 20 years when you're on iOS 44 or whatever? I'd be genuinely shocked.
tracker1 6y ago
I absolutely hate the UConnect software/entertainment systems in Dodge/Chrysler models, not sure how much this is/was from Daimler though. AFAIK they've relatively recently switched to Android Mobile systems, but I haven't tried them. It's hard to believe that nobody came up with a good/open AV integration for mobile/smart phones a decade ago. Gotta love proprietary interfaces that stop getting updates 2 years in for a car that should last 10+ years at least.
- moooo99 6y ago
  A friend of mine owns a Jeep with a Uconnect infotainment system and let me tell you, Daimler is very far ahead with their current generation of infotainment system. They launched their MBUX platform a few years ago and hat huge goals, since I don't own a mercedes, I don't know if they managed to keep up with those. However, from what I read online, it doesn't look like it
deleted 6y ago
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realityking 6y ago
> CarPlay is a subscription Fortunately they cut that shit out a year ago: https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20995630/bmw-apple-carplay-reverse-decision-annual-fee-vehicle https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20995630/bmw-apple-carpla...

whydoineedthis 6y ago

Idk, I was in a new bmw recently and thought it was cool. Driver assist to stay in lanes. Full touch dash across the entire dashboard. Verbal assistant worked well and was able to adjust settings intuitively. I'm still too poor to buy one new, but it didn't seem completely without innovation.

rwc 6y ago
These things are common in similarly-classed vehicles and have been for many years.
- astura 6y ago
  They are even common on mid and higher-trimed economy cars now (I have all those features on mine)
moooo99 6y ago
My 2017 Seat Leon costs significantly less than a comparable BMW 1. I have a decent navigation system, voice controls, Android Auto and CarPlay, touch infotainment (not a fan), and lane assist, emergency break assist and several others. A friend of mine bought a BMW 1 which cost 12k more than my car (MSRP) and, excluding the gps navigation, has none of those features. Those aren't innovations, those are almost standard in lots of vehicles.
- whydoineedthis 6y ago
  Lol. I just looked at that car online. Comparing it to a bmw is laughable in every sense. Performance, not comparable. Safety rating, not comparable. Exterior and interior styling, laughably non existent in the Leon. Give me a break.

gifnamething 6y ago

BMW operate like a company that have given up on expanding their addressable market and now seek to extract as much value from it as possible. In a vacuum, this is common and makes sense, but not at the cusp of a revolution in that industry. I spent a long time sceptical about that other car company. But I've realised I can never overestimate how much the traditional companies will screw up.

dingaling 6y ago
I think it's the opposite problem, they're trying to expand to fill every niche and in so doing have lost focus on what made them appealing. Just look at their model range nowadays, it's vast, confusing and insipid. Very little of it is inspiring unless you think 650bhp in an SUV is interesting.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Very little of it is inspiring unless you think 650bhp in an SUV is interesting. Depends on where you live. I drive a really small but acceptably fast car, but I'm frequently surrounded by giant lifted trucks that block all visibility. I want a taller vehicle just so I don't die, but don't want to give up the 6 second 0-60.
  - ska 6y ago
    6 second 0-60 isn't that hard to hit, and doesn't need anything like 650 bhp, even on a larger frame. Unless you are sub 3s, mostly what you need is a bit of torque lower in the range, and a suspension & tires that can deliver it to the road. This, along with transmission ratios, trades off against other things people often want in their cars. hp above 300ish is mostly about what happens (or doesn't happen) at triple digit speeds, at least for regular passenger vehicles not towing large loads. The latter is all about torque available at what range but that can push you into higher hp territory.

petre 6y ago

The new front grill is atrocious. I saw their new electric model. An unispired SUV on steroids with a butt ugly grill.

ahartmetz 6y ago
If that isn't for the Chinese market, I am completely baffled about their so-called design. What we really don't need is more cars that look like angry predators or "gaming" PC cases.
- hhh 6y ago
  This is the illuminated one, yeah? They look decent in person, I saw a few of the pre-prod grills at $WORK. I don't think it was worth how much went into making them though. A lot of individual components in that grille, and an absolute astonishing amount of development had to be done by suppliers.
  - petre 6y ago
    Illuminated? It's clearly for the Chinese market then. I'm talking about the grille on the iX. I wonder what's next, an electric X6 with this grill, the pinnacle of ugliness? Compare that with the M2 which is a looker and a badass car.
    - asciimike 6y ago
      Speaking as an M2 owner (and an E36 owner before that), can confirm it's an excellent looking and performing car--arguably the last "enthusiast" car BMW has produced. I'm also pretty annoyed with the current direction, and if I get another car (performance or otherwise) it's very unlikely to be a BMW.
      - enos_feedler 6y ago
        Likewise, I just picked up a 2021 M2 which I heard will switch to something new in 2022. I love the car. You can feel all of the engineering and craft in the driving experience.

dhbanes 6y ago

CarPlay is no longer a subscription. They are also one of the few automakers to implement wireless CarPlay and it works flawlessly.

TomVDB 6y ago
As much as I prefer CarPlay over the default UI of most cars, I had to disable it on my 2019 i3 because it was an unusable disaster.
- dhbanes 6y ago
  Interesting. My car has iDrive 6 (not the latest version) and is a 2018 MY and it’s been fantastic.
enos_feedler 6y ago
Agree. You can see my post above at how upset I was to learn the 240i does not support the digital key for 2021. However, wireless carplay has been a saving grace. Pairs nicely with a MagSafe charger since you can get full car integration without needing to ever plug in.

Rafert 6y ago

> CarPlay is a subscription I've been looking at BMWs this year and IIRC they backed out of this after the backlash: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/bmw-u-turns-apple-carplay-subscription-fees-uk https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/bmw-u-turns-ap... - agree with your other points though.

enos_feedler 6y ago

BMW went on stage at WWDC this year to talk about Digital Key for the car. Their marketing page said it works on all 2021 models. The detailed list says Series 1, 2, 3, etc.. I thought this feature is really cool. I am going to buy this car for it. I talked to 2 dealers and confirmed the feature. I looked up all the info online but could not find any more details. I bought a 2021 m240i for $50,000 USD. I could have got a heavily discounted 2020 model off the lot. But no, I wanted to be _sure_ I got the digital key. I was really looking forward to using this feature. Guess what.. no digital key. Frantically go searching the marketing pages. I now find a compatibility table buried deep in their web site (this document didn't exist at time of purchase) where it has a #7 footnote on the series 2: must be 235i cars running iDrive 7. Thanks BMW! Get your shit together! Anyway, this anecdote is just a taste of what is coming for the car industry. Carplay is only a small preview of the level of integration consumers are going to expect over the next 5-10 years. If they can't sort out a digital key across their lineup, they are kind of fucked.

humanlion87 6y ago
Is it possible for your to return the car and get a different model since the dealership obviously lied to you? Seems like a huge premium to pay for a non-existent feature.
Tomdarkness 6y ago
If it's any conciliation personally I think you have the nicer car mechanically. The m240i is a rwd straight 6 with the legendary zf 8hp gearbox whilst the newer m235i is an awd 4 cylinder with some inferior aisin gearbox.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  Thanks! I think so too which is why I didn't put up a fuss about it. I really wanted this car a lot. Lot's of therapy sessions to get over the fact I need to use a real key though.
bryanmgreen 6y ago
IOT is going to utterly trash the auto industry (which admittedly is already in poor shape) and make an even larger mess of the environment by turning cars into pre-mature waste - because you mentioned, it's not been thoughtfully implemented (and I doubt will be). Think that digital key is going to work in 20 years when you're on iOS 44 or whatever? I'd be genuinely shocked.

tracker1 6y ago

I absolutely hate the UConnect software/entertainment systems in Dodge/Chrysler models, not sure how much this is/was from Daimler though. AFAIK they've relatively recently switched to Android Mobile systems, but I haven't tried them. It's hard to believe that nobody came up with a good/open AV integration for mobile/smart phones a decade ago. Gotta love proprietary interfaces that stop getting updates 2 years in for a car that should last 10+ years at least.

moooo99 6y ago
A friend of mine owns a Jeep with a Uconnect infotainment system and let me tell you, Daimler is very far ahead with their current generation of infotainment system. They launched their MBUX platform a few years ago and hat huge goals, since I don't own a mercedes, I don't know if they managed to keep up with those. However, from what I read online, it doesn't look like it

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

realityking 6y ago

> CarPlay is a subscription Fortunately they cut that shit out a year ago: https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20995630/bmw-apple-carplay-reverse-decision-annual-fee-vehicle https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20995630/bmw-apple-carpla...