6 ms·

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to s

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.

paganel 6y ago
Not sure why you're being down-voted, the M2 and the M5 are among the best driver-focused cars being made right now (a dying breed, those driver-focused cars, but that's another discussion), but that still shouldn't excuse BMW for dick moves like this one (I consider it a dick move).
- valuearb 6y ago
  The Ms are overweight pigs, not drivers cars.
  - culopatin 6y ago
    Have you seen an M2 with sticky tires roar on a racetrack?
    - valuearb 6y ago
      I’ve seen them getting lapped by the 700 lb lighter Porsche Cayman.
Tade0 6y ago
2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. All this will be replaced by electric anyway.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. tell that to the new c8 corvette. anyways, the C63 AMG is a $70,000 car. for that price you should be able to get a v8 or at least a v6, even if it makes no sense. lots of cars that are way cheaper still have more than four cylinders.
  - fhood 6y ago
    The value of an engine is not determined by the number of cylinders. You aren't owed a certain number just because you payed a certain amount. An argument can be made that v8+ are capable of being more sonically pleasing, but it ends there.
    - boringg 6y ago
      Can’t speak to the technical argument. I can agree with you that my dads Lexus sc400 from 2000 had a great sound and super smooth driver (v8). That engine was a workhorse... over 500k km and still rocking. The rest of the accessories were falling apart (door handles, leather) but that engine was rock solid.
    - yodelshady 6y ago
      The value is determined by the customer. An electric motor is, in every respect except its inability to use energy-dense fuels, pretty much perfect. Just not very interesting. As a toy, an ICE has value. They shouldn't work at all! it's a ridiculous idea. It's quite cool that they do anyway.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        yeah no one buys an amg because it's a sensible vehicle. these are the folks who sell a 600 hp station wagon.
        fhood 6y ago
        I would argue that the station wagon is a great idea. A car like that allows enthusiasts to buy something that isn't completely impractical for most non-enthusiast things.
newyorker2 6y ago
I might be a bit biased because my first car was a used M3 e36 back in the 90s. My wife just bought the M5 last year, admittedly one of the best driving experiences in recent years.
Shivetya 6y ago
welcome to the future, subscription services are what a lot of car makers moving too. if anything one of the first was OnStar which has some monthly fees that will make you wince. what worries me is that app integration may be a fee based service for some cars. As for BMW, I owned one and enjoyed it very much but the running commentary on BMW is that you own them only while they are under warranty.
volta87 6y ago
There is a big difference between a BMW or BMW with M sport packet, and a BMW M. The BMW Ms are actually developed by a different company (the BMW M company, which is different from the BMW company). For some reason people think of them as being extremely similar, but anybody that has driven a BMW 3xx and a BMW M3 knows that there is a world between them.
valuearb 6y ago
Isn't BMWs V8 rumble recorded and piped through speakers?
- sova 6y ago
  There is a clip of the M4 with the system on and later off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU
adav 6y ago
The M2CS may be a great driver’s car in its class but not the best in its price bracket (at UK prices).

paganel 6y ago

Not sure why you're being down-voted, the M2 and the M5 are among the best driver-focused cars being made right now (a dying breed, those driver-focused cars, but that's another discussion), but that still shouldn't excuse BMW for dick moves like this one (I consider it a dick move).

valuearb 6y ago
The Ms are overweight pigs, not drivers cars.
- culopatin 6y ago
  Have you seen an M2 with sticky tires roar on a racetrack?
  - valuearb 6y ago
    I’ve seen them getting lapped by the 700 lb lighter Porsche Cayman.

Tade0 6y ago

2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. All this will be replaced by electric anyway.

leetcrew 6y ago
> Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. tell that to the new c8 corvette. anyways, the C63 AMG is a $70,000 car. for that price you should be able to get a v8 or at least a v6, even if it makes no sense. lots of cars that are way cheaper still have more than four cylinders.
- fhood 6y ago
  The value of an engine is not determined by the number of cylinders. You aren't owed a certain number just because you payed a certain amount. An argument can be made that v8+ are capable of being more sonically pleasing, but it ends there.
  - boringg 6y ago
    Can’t speak to the technical argument. I can agree with you that my dads Lexus sc400 from 2000 had a great sound and super smooth driver (v8). That engine was a workhorse... over 500k km and still rocking. The rest of the accessories were falling apart (door handles, leather) but that engine was rock solid.
  - yodelshady 6y ago
    The value is determined by the customer. An electric motor is, in every respect except its inability to use energy-dense fuels, pretty much perfect. Just not very interesting. As a toy, an ICE has value. They shouldn't work at all! it's a ridiculous idea. It's quite cool that they do anyway.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      yeah no one buys an amg because it's a sensible vehicle. these are the folks who sell a 600 hp station wagon.
      - fhood 6y ago
        I would argue that the station wagon is a great idea. A car like that allows enthusiasts to buy something that isn't completely impractical for most non-enthusiast things.

newyorker2 6y ago

I might be a bit biased because my first car was a used M3 e36 back in the 90s. My wife just bought the M5 last year, admittedly one of the best driving experiences in recent years.

Shivetya 6y ago

welcome to the future, subscription services are what a lot of car makers moving too. if anything one of the first was OnStar which has some monthly fees that will make you wince. what worries me is that app integration may be a fee based service for some cars. As for BMW, I owned one and enjoyed it very much but the running commentary on BMW is that you own them only while they are under warranty.

volta87 6y ago

There is a big difference between a BMW or BMW with M sport packet, and a BMW M. The BMW Ms are actually developed by a different company (the BMW M company, which is different from the BMW company). For some reason people think of them as being extremely similar, but anybody that has driven a BMW 3xx and a BMW M3 knows that there is a world between them.

valuearb 6y ago

Isn't BMWs V8 rumble recorded and piped through speakers?

sova 6y ago
There is a clip of the M4 with the system on and later off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU

adav 6y ago

The M2CS may be a great driver’s car in its class but not the best in its price bracket (at UK prices).