17 ms·

I used to really like BMWs but they have lost their way in my opinion. Front wheel drive models, charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay, that 4-series grill,

by adav 6y ago

I used to really like BMWs but they have lost their way in my opinion. Front wheel drive models, charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay, that 4-series grill, increasingly horrific customer service at dealers and foregoing their position as the market leader in handling and dynamics really rub me up the wrong way.

sk5t 6y ago
Exactly, they’ve gone for luxury but not as well as MB or Audi who are now eating their lunch. To say nothing of Porsche taking the sportscar and sporty SUV market profits. CarPlay subscription is just offensive.
patrulo 6y ago
M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.
- paganel 6y ago
  Not sure why you're being down-voted, the M2 and the M5 are among the best driver-focused cars being made right now (a dying breed, those driver-focused cars, but that's another discussion), but that still shouldn't excuse BMW for dick moves like this one (I consider it a dick move).
  - valuearb 6y ago
    The Ms are overweight pigs, not drivers cars.
    - culopatin 6y ago
      Have you seen an M2 with sticky tires roar on a racetrack?
      - valuearb 6y ago
        I’ve seen them getting lapped by the 700 lb lighter Porsche Cayman.
- Tade0 6y ago
  2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. All this will be replaced by electric anyway.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    > Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. tell that to the new c8 corvette. anyways, the C63 AMG is a $70,000 car. for that price you should be able to get a v8 or at least a v6, even if it makes no sense. lots of cars that are way cheaper still have more than four cylinders.
    - fhood 6y ago
      The value of an engine is not determined by the number of cylinders. You aren't owed a certain number just because you payed a certain amount. An argument can be made that v8+ are capable of being more sonically pleasing, but it ends there.
      - boringg 6y ago
        Can’t speak to the technical argument. I can agree with you that my dads Lexus sc400 from 2000 had a great sound and super smooth driver (v8). That engine was a workhorse... over 500k km and still rocking. The rest of the accessories were falling apart (door handles, leather) but that engine was rock solid.
      - yodelshady 6y ago
        The value is determined by the customer. An electric motor is, in every respect except its inability to use energy-dense fuels, pretty much perfect. Just not very interesting. As a toy, an ICE has value. They shouldn't work at all! it's a ridiculous idea. It's quite cool that they do anyway.
- newyorker2 6y ago
  I might be a bit biased because my first car was a used M3 e36 back in the 90s. My wife just bought the M5 last year, admittedly one of the best driving experiences in recent years.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  welcome to the future, subscription services are what a lot of car makers moving too. if anything one of the first was OnStar which has some monthly fees that will make you wince. what worries me is that app integration may be a fee based service for some cars. As for BMW, I owned one and enjoyed it very much but the running commentary on BMW is that you own them only while they are under warranty.
- volta87 6y ago
  There is a big difference between a BMW or BMW with M sport packet, and a BMW M. The BMW Ms are actually developed by a different company (the BMW M company, which is different from the BMW company). For some reason people think of them as being extremely similar, but anybody that has driven a BMW 3xx and a BMW M3 knows that there is a world between them.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Isn't BMWs V8 rumble recorded and piped through speakers?
  - sova 6y ago
    There is a clip of the M4 with the system on and later off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU
- adav 6y ago
  The M2CS may be a great driver’s car in its class but not the best in its price bracket (at UK prices).
tomp 6y ago
> charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay Well that's a scam if there ever was one. Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? Might as well buy an iPad and solder it over BMW's control panel.
- city41 6y ago
  In my 2016 BMW, CarPlay was so incredibly buggy. Unsure who's at fault on that, but the thought of paying a subscription for it makes me chuckle.
  - burlesona 6y ago
    Interesting. In my Mazda it works really well. The only thing that bothers me is that the car has a no-phone system that is the default, and you always have to switch to Car Play. But Car Play is much, much better, so it would be nice if I could just make it always be on.
    - corty 6y ago
      The big German car makers go out of their way to reinvent the digital wheel at any opportunity. The next series will have completely different electronics from different cheapest OEMs with a whole new set of bugs in all components and their integration. In Japan, electronics seem to be more evolutionary and software reuse is practiced more, so while the rotating-car-animation-bling-factor might be lower, bugs are also ironed out over time.
    - ak217 6y ago
      Press and hold Home to switch to CarPlay quickly on Mazda.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? I don't get this fundamental objection. It's just a different way to pay. Either you pay up-front or you pay a subscription. Work out the total cost of ownership (you'll need to estimate how long you likely keep the car either way.) Now take that final figure and either it's worth it to you or it isn't. How that final figure gets paid doesn't seem like a big deal?
bkovacev 6y ago
How are they foregoing their position as the market leader in handling and dynamics? They’re still miles ahead of Audis where it feels as if the transmission and the engine are fighting vs each other especially in 50 engines, and Mercedes where it feels you’re driving a barge rather than a car.
FartyMcFarter 6y ago
> Front wheel drive models, Better for driving on snow, if you're at a place where that matters.
- rconti 6y ago
  Marginally so, under certain use cases. Unfortunately, it suddenly becomes worse when you want to steer AND accelerate. And, much like AWD, it can give you a sense of confidence in your ability to move that is not matched by your ability to stop. If you live somewhere that snow matters, get good tires.
  - volta87 6y ago
    > Marginally so, under certain use cases. My reality disagrees. I live in a place with a lot of snow, and pretty much see cars that have sliden off the highway every week. All of them are BMWs. And they are all required by law to have winter tires at least. Winter tires do help, but there is a huge difference between RWD with good tires and 4 wheel drive (notice also that 4WD and AWD is not the same thing, and there are also different qualities). (it just so happen that here, BMWs are the most popular rear wheel drive cars)
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >Better for driving on snow Until you have to go up a hill, or steer and drive in several inches of slush. I guess it's marginally more stupid proof if you floor it at a dumb time but that seems like needless optimization of the worst case while totally tanking the average case. With the weight distribution and electronic controls available in modern vehicles FWD has no meaningful benefit other than cost.
  - noisem4ker 6y ago
    >FWD has no meaningful benefit other than cost ... and lower weight, and no tunnel, and more boot space. If anything, it's RWD which struggles to maintain its significance and show its benefits outside of sports. Modern platforms can make the front wheels turn and spin at the same time without much fuss, with driving characteristics determined by other factors.

by adav 6y ago

sk5t 6y ago

Exactly, they’ve gone for luxury but not as well as MB or Audi who are now eating their lunch. To say nothing of Porsche taking the sportscar and sporty SUV market profits. CarPlay subscription is just offensive.

patrulo 6y ago

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.

paganel 6y ago
Not sure why you're being down-voted, the M2 and the M5 are among the best driver-focused cars being made right now (a dying breed, those driver-focused cars, but that's another discussion), but that still shouldn't excuse BMW for dick moves like this one (I consider it a dick move).
- valuearb 6y ago
  The Ms are overweight pigs, not drivers cars.
  - culopatin 6y ago
    Have you seen an M2 with sticky tires roar on a racetrack?
    - valuearb 6y ago
      I’ve seen them getting lapped by the 700 lb lighter Porsche Cayman.
Tade0 6y ago
2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. All this will be replaced by electric anyway.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good. tell that to the new c8 corvette. anyways, the C63 AMG is a $70,000 car. for that price you should be able to get a v8 or at least a v6, even if it makes no sense. lots of cars that are way cheaper still have more than four cylinders.
  - fhood 6y ago
    The value of an engine is not determined by the number of cylinders. You aren't owed a certain number just because you payed a certain amount. An argument can be made that v8+ are capable of being more sonically pleasing, but it ends there.
    - boringg 6y ago
      Can’t speak to the technical argument. I can agree with you that my dads Lexus sc400 from 2000 had a great sound and super smooth driver (v8). That engine was a workhorse... over 500k km and still rocking. The rest of the accessories were falling apart (door handles, leather) but that engine was rock solid.
    - yodelshady 6y ago
      The value is determined by the customer. An electric motor is, in every respect except its inability to use energy-dense fuels, pretty much perfect. Just not very interesting. As a toy, an ICE has value. They shouldn't work at all! it's a ridiculous idea. It's quite cool that they do anyway.
newyorker2 6y ago
I might be a bit biased because my first car was a used M3 e36 back in the 90s. My wife just bought the M5 last year, admittedly one of the best driving experiences in recent years.
Shivetya 6y ago
welcome to the future, subscription services are what a lot of car makers moving too. if anything one of the first was OnStar which has some monthly fees that will make you wince. what worries me is that app integration may be a fee based service for some cars. As for BMW, I owned one and enjoyed it very much but the running commentary on BMW is that you own them only while they are under warranty.
volta87 6y ago
There is a big difference between a BMW or BMW with M sport packet, and a BMW M. The BMW Ms are actually developed by a different company (the BMW M company, which is different from the BMW company). For some reason people think of them as being extremely similar, but anybody that has driven a BMW 3xx and a BMW M3 knows that there is a world between them.
valuearb 6y ago
Isn't BMWs V8 rumble recorded and piped through speakers?
- sova 6y ago
  There is a clip of the M4 with the system on and later off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU
adav 6y ago
The M2CS may be a great driver’s car in its class but not the best in its price bracket (at UK prices).

tomp 6y ago

> charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay Well that's a scam if there ever was one. Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? Might as well buy an iPad and solder it over BMW's control panel.

city41 6y ago
In my 2016 BMW, CarPlay was so incredibly buggy. Unsure who's at fault on that, but the thought of paying a subscription for it makes me chuckle.
- burlesona 6y ago
  Interesting. In my Mazda it works really well. The only thing that bothers me is that the car has a no-phone system that is the default, and you always have to switch to Car Play. But Car Play is much, much better, so it would be nice if I could just make it always be on.
  - corty 6y ago
    The big German car makers go out of their way to reinvent the digital wheel at any opportunity. The next series will have completely different electronics from different cheapest OEMs with a whole new set of bugs in all components and their integration. In Japan, electronics seem to be more evolutionary and software reuse is practiced more, so while the rotating-car-animation-bling-factor might be lower, bugs are also ironed out over time.
  - ak217 6y ago
    Press and hold Home to switch to CarPlay quickly on Mazda.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? I don't get this fundamental objection. It's just a different way to pay. Either you pay up-front or you pay a subscription. Work out the total cost of ownership (you'll need to estimate how long you likely keep the car either way.) Now take that final figure and either it's worth it to you or it isn't. How that final figure gets paid doesn't seem like a big deal?

bkovacev 6y ago

How are they foregoing their position as the market leader in handling and dynamics? They’re still miles ahead of Audis where it feels as if the transmission and the engine are fighting vs each other especially in 50 engines, and Mercedes where it feels you’re driving a barge rather than a car.

FartyMcFarter 6y ago

> Front wheel drive models, Better for driving on snow, if you're at a place where that matters.

rconti 6y ago
Marginally so, under certain use cases. Unfortunately, it suddenly becomes worse when you want to steer AND accelerate. And, much like AWD, it can give you a sense of confidence in your ability to move that is not matched by your ability to stop. If you live somewhere that snow matters, get good tires.
- volta87 6y ago
  > Marginally so, under certain use cases. My reality disagrees. I live in a place with a lot of snow, and pretty much see cars that have sliden off the highway every week. All of them are BMWs. And they are all required by law to have winter tires at least. Winter tires do help, but there is a huge difference between RWD with good tires and 4 wheel drive (notice also that 4WD and AWD is not the same thing, and there are also different qualities). (it just so happen that here, BMWs are the most popular rear wheel drive cars)
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>Better for driving on snow Until you have to go up a hill, or steer and drive in several inches of slush. I guess it's marginally more stupid proof if you floor it at a dumb time but that seems like needless optimization of the worst case while totally tanking the average case. With the weight distribution and electronic controls available in modern vehicles FWD has no meaningful benefit other than cost.
- noisem4ker 6y ago
  >FWD has no meaningful benefit other than cost ... and lower weight, and no tunnel, and more boot space. If anything, it's RWD which struggles to maintain its significance and show its benefits outside of sports. Modern platforms can make the front wheels turn and spin at the same time without much fuss, with driving characteristics determined by other factors.