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I just started learning piano in the COVID lockdown. The best and cheapest way to learn is use an app: Simply Piano(android+ios), Piano Marvel(ios), etc and con

I just started learning piano in the COVID lockdown. The best and cheapest way to learn is use an app: Simply Piano(android+ios), Piano Marvel(ios), etc and connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard. this allows you to spend the next 6 months learning without anyone getting disturbed..while the app gives you realtime feedback about which keys you are pressing. you wont miss the lack of a teacher...especially during the lockdown. dont buy an expensive piano. Dont buy books and methods. Learning this way is like playing a game...and arguably much better than Cyberpunk 2077 ;)

acjohnson55 6y ago
This is fine to get started (it's pretty close to how I got started) but I recommend getting a good teacher and instrument asap, if you're really enjoying yourself. They will help immensely in progression and good habits. After about 5 months with a teacher, I was playing a Chopin piece I wouldn't have dreamed of playing previously.
knuthsat 6y ago
Does it have like random chords for reading practice? I'd enjoy just getting a single chord or a chord sequence and going through it as quick as possible.
maille 6y ago
what kind of cheap keyboard would you recommend?
- phkahler 6y ago
  That part of is definitely poor advice, although prices are lower these days. Get something with at least 61 full sized and weighted keys. None of those light weight organ type keys, they need to feel more like piano keys. Polyphonic - able to play at least 8 notes simultaneously. That would be the bare minimum IMHO. Getting the full 88 keys will probable ensure the rest but maybe not in some cases.
  - devthane 6y ago
    This for certain. The piano is way more fun to play with weighted keys and much more expressive. I bought my first weighted key piano, a Roland FP-30, this year and have been playing almost every day just for the fun of it.
  - joegahona 6y ago
    > Polyphonic - able to play at least 8 notes simultaneously. Don't you kind of have to go out of your way these days to _not_ get something polyphonic?
    - claudiawerner 6y ago
      Polyphony on keyboards is less about physically playing multiple keys at once, but having the sound of multiple keys audible as they decay. Even the cheapest keyboard will let you play many notes at once; those that will actually sound a large number of keys after you've hit them are pricier.
    - phkahler 6y ago
      Yeah, but they still exist and you'd be surprised at some of the models with this deficiency.
  - thih9 6y ago
    > Get something with at least 61 full sized and weighted keys. As someone who plays a musical instrument as a hobby, getting an el cheapo toy seems a good first step to me. You get to see whether you actually enjoy playing and it lets you become familiar with the practice schedule. When you start to feel limited by your tool, you advance to a proper one. Otherwise you risk buying expensive gear and letting it collect dust 2 months later.
    - tonystride 6y ago
      Some low price keyboards are so bad that they might not properly convey the fun of piano because of their limited function and make you think you don't like it. You've gotta make sure that what you buy gives you an accurate picture of what it is like to play a quality instrument because a crappy instrument is not fun. For example I bought a $200 keyboard once because I thought it would lighten my load as a gigging pianist. Nice and light, 88 keys, built in speaker. Much better than lugging around my thousands of dollars of pro gear. But when I got it, it didn't have weighted keys, ok not fun but I can deal with that, but then it didn't have velocity sensitivity... Every note was just on/off. This was a deal breaker, it is strait up not fun to play a piano like that. I mean it's in the name Piano/Forte the instrument that can play loud and soft.
- tonystride 6y ago
  I would say no cheaper than $500 from Roland, Yamaha, or Casio.
- publicola1990 6y ago
  I would recommend a casio S300, should cost about 135$. Has touch sensitivity, and about 400 built in sound bank, ear phone jack, light and easy to carry/store as well.
- Cactus2018 6y ago
  He says "el cheapo keyboard", but the search term would be "MIDI keyboard controller"
- dbrgn 6y ago
  I bought a weighted Yamaha Arius e-piano (YDP-163) about 3 years ago and am very happy with it! (Cost was around 1000$ I think, but there are also cheaper models.) I had a very cheap children's keyboard with non-weighted keys before. It was totally frustrating to play on that. Weighted keys made a world of a difference!
- jacquesm 6y ago
  I'd scrounge craigslist and ebay for a lightly used Yamaha, Kawai or Roland digital piano. $300-400 should get you something that is next to brand new. People do a lot of impulse buying find out that it is hard work and then get rid of them again.
gjulianm 6y ago
Sorry but I have to disagree a lot. An app is not the best way to learn piano. Piano is not just about pressing keys. Does the app correct your position (important if you don't want to get fatigue and cramps), your volume, fingerings, etc? Does it tell you how to practice the parts where you're struggling? > connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard Please don't do that. I mean, if you just want to give it a try to piano and not spend anything, yeah, go ahead, but a small keyboard with non-weighted keys will limit you a lot, even early on. The sound is terrible, you won't be able to control the volume properly, and getting a better technique to play better and faster will be far more difficult. Not to mention that at some point you will try to use the extra keys and if they're are not there you can't do anything. If you want to seriously take up piano, just buy a decent keyboard at the start, you'll end up needing it anyways. Edit: Don't get me wrong, anything that gets more people into playing music is good. But I think it's also good if people know the advantages and limitations of the method they use to learn, and are able to choose the method that fits their expectations. If you just want to poke your nose into piano playing maybe an app is enough for you, but there are no shortcuts and no magic method.
- publicola1990 6y ago
  Yes but in comparison with the same time spent on a game like 2077, even app lets people make progress.
  - Scarbutt 6y ago
    And create bad piano habits that are harder to correct later, but sure, depends on your goals.
- mike_h 6y ago
  This advice is debatable anymore. If your goal is to really go deep on acoustic, traditional piano then sure. But if you just want to make music in a modern way (on the computer), or even just want to try it out for a year or two before deciding this is a lifetime hobby to invest thousands of dollars and hours into, then cheap midi keyboard plus app is more than fine. Especially if the app makes it fun for you.
kace91 6y ago
I've been learning due to covid as well! I would add earpeggio and music tutor for iOS (not affiliated, there are other similar apps). It's basically a Duolingo-like way to get used to reading sheet music and ear training respectively, you just put in 5 min a day and in a matter of weeks you're able to read sheet music relatively well.
snvzz 6y ago
Something properly weighted. $700-1000.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- duiker101 6y ago
  who doesn't have that cash laying around just to try an hobby?
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Why buy new?
  - snvzz 6y ago
    Buying used is an option. Learning Piano is unpleasant on a non-weighted keyboard, and bad habit forming is a very real issue. I remembered that Synthesia's got some specific advice: https://synthesiagame.com/keyboards/info https://synthesiagame.com/keyboards/info
dade_ 6y ago
People can disagree with you all they want about the app. I figured out how to play with both hands at the same time with Simply Piano. To me, that is magical. Also, it's fun. I am using a M-Audio keyboard, which senses speed and was good to get started, and now I feel proficient enough that I want to buy a digital piano. Looking at Kawai, but can't visit a music store showroom because of COVID lockdown. Maybe in time I will change my mind, but I think it makes perfect sense to use a basic MIDI keyboard to learn the keys and notes while deciding if it is something enjoyable and worth a substantial financial investment.
- jhawk28 6y ago
  The Roland FP-30 has the best piano feel at the low end. The Kawai MP11SE is considered to be the best at any price range.
peterkelly 6y ago
Apps can be useful but there is simply no replacement for having an experienced person observe your playing and giving you feedback. A good teacher can pick up on problems early and correct them, saving you hundreds of hours. They can also answer certain types of questions very easily that you might never be able to find via google.
rubyn00bie 6y ago
Nice slur drop... for literally no reason. > to an el cheapo midi keyboard. El cheapo? You could just have said cheap and not come across as prick.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  LOL, never realized that was a slur — I've heard it most of my life and took it to be humorous in a self-deprecating way: as in I'm so dumb this is how I think you can fake speaking Spanish. Like "cheapio midio" is my attempt at Italian.
  - rubyn00bie 6y ago
    Really? I honestly can’t express how truly depressing and miserable your comment is. Self deprecating to use another language incorrectly to “humble” yourself? Seems pretty obviously racist. It’s like saying “Ching Chong China virus” and calling it self-deprecating. Petty fucking gross. Wish I had the confidence of a white person to never think about my affect on others... or what language can do. Let alone to get paid like one since I get to put up with ignorant shit like this on the daily.
    - sandGorgon 6y ago
      I apologise for the phrase I used. I was not aware that it had a slur built into it. My linguistic humor is based off the internet - English is not my first language. Im Indian and most definitely not white. However will still apologise for it.
      - Redoubts 6y ago
        Don’t apologize to this absurd person
    - dempseye 6y ago
      This seems like the form of aggressive linguistic policing that the modern American so-called left engages in constantly. It strikes me as a wanton desire to get offended as a pretext to deliver a lecture about cultural sensitivity, thereby elevating the lecturer and diminishing the person receiving the lecture. It is immensely tedious and almost everybody is sick of it. The person you are responding to obviously did not speak with any ill intent. He or she would probably have been more amenable to your viewpoint if you hadn't assumed malice and gone on the attack. First you accuse him of racism then say something derogatory about white people. Do you not see the contradiction, or are you one of those who subscribe to the ideological position that anti-white racism is impossible by definition? And if you suggested to the average Spanish person that they are not "white" they'd laugh at you.
lscotte 6y ago
I tried a few of these apps but I wasn't really learning anything. Eventually, I found pianote.com and I couldn't be more happy - it's worth checking out as another option for online piano learning (they also have drum and guitar programs). I agree not to buy an expensive piano (or keyboard). While a fully weighted 88-key instrument is definitely ideal, you can get by just fine on a semi, or even el-cheapo, 61-key keyboard.
nautilus12 6y ago
This will teach you to play keyboard but not piano. There is ALOT more to piano than pressing keys at the right time. It's as nuanced an instrument as the violin, but you don't know that unless you've studied professionally or played on a good instrument
kidproquo 6y ago
Completely agree on the Simply Piano plus MIDI approach. My autistic son is musically inclined, can play piano by ear. We have struggled trying to get him formally trained to read music. Then we found Simply Piano. He's taken to it very well, treating it as a game. This is the only way we have managed to get him to read music. We use it in conjunction with a music teacher via Zoom. Here's a video of him playing https://youtu.be/NEa9X36e7Vo https://youtu.be/NEa9X36e7Vo
- jacquesm 6y ago
  That's quite lovely, thank you for posting!
Brian_K_White 6y ago
How can I decide between these opposing arguments that both sound reasonable? Well who is recommending that real teachers don't matter? "I just started learning piano..." That's who.
rdiddly 6y ago
I love this little sub-thread. I don't know what it is about piano in particular that brings out the nail-biting. You don't seem to get that with guitar for example. What I like is that there's a lot of concern-for-others visible, which is admirable. The place where it strays into misplaced concern though (kind of as usual in life) is where in some cases there's a disproportionate intensity of concern that seems to indicate projection of each writer's own unconscious issues. I will now proceed to probably project my own, but just keep in mind... Why should someone care so much how someone else learns piano or how much piano they learn? And why should the 2nd someone care what the 1st someone thinks in the first place? Mira, does it sound good, ¿sí o no? That's the only thing you need to ask yourself. If it sounds bad, try harder. (Or don't. Since it's for you and has no meaning except what you bring to it, and since it's near-worthless as a way to pay the bills, you're kind of free to do whatever. Maybe that freedom demotivates some people. That too is fine.) The argument for a structured approach or formal lessons tends to be that it prevents learning "bad habits." But what's wrong with finding that out for yourself, i.e. finding out that you learned a bad habit by progressing to the point that you notice the habit is bad? And then you either live with it (as many of them will actually be pretty inconsequential) or work to change it. I can even make a case that unlearning a bad habit is superior in some ways to never developing it. Because first of all, the way you reach "good piano player" status is always by passing through "shitty piano player" status, but secondly, an analogy: The way you mature to the point where you see that, let's say doing drugs (another bad habit for some people) isn't so good for you, is by doing drugs and then quitting, not by "just saying no" from the getgo. What the fuck does a Nancy Reagan type know about drugs? Someone who quits drugs knows all about it. Ah but the additional knowledge takes (or if you think in terms of maximizing piano throughput like some industrial process, it wastes) additional time. If your parents have you convinced that your survival depends on getting early-admitted to Juilliard by age 14, yeah that is gonna hurt you. You can't spare the time to do it "wrong" or even to question whether doing it is bringing you any joy in the first place for that matter. But if you're willing to wait until age 18 for Juilliard, that gives you another 4 years to unlearn the bad habit. Plenty of time. 4 more years of playing piano, which is what you were trying to do in the first place.
- syncopatience 6y ago

acjohnson55 6y ago

This is fine to get started (it's pretty close to how I got started) but I recommend getting a good teacher and instrument asap, if you're really enjoying yourself. They will help immensely in progression and good habits. After about 5 months with a teacher, I was playing a Chopin piece I wouldn't have dreamed of playing previously.

knuthsat 6y ago

Does it have like random chords for reading practice? I'd enjoy just getting a single chord or a chord sequence and going through it as quick as possible.

maille 6y ago

what kind of cheap keyboard would you recommend?

phkahler 6y ago
That part of is definitely poor advice, although prices are lower these days. Get something with at least 61 full sized and weighted keys. None of those light weight organ type keys, they need to feel more like piano keys. Polyphonic - able to play at least 8 notes simultaneously. That would be the bare minimum IMHO. Getting the full 88 keys will probable ensure the rest but maybe not in some cases.
- devthane 6y ago
  This for certain. The piano is way more fun to play with weighted keys and much more expressive. I bought my first weighted key piano, a Roland FP-30, this year and have been playing almost every day just for the fun of it.
- joegahona 6y ago
  > Polyphonic - able to play at least 8 notes simultaneously. Don't you kind of have to go out of your way these days to _not_ get something polyphonic?
  - claudiawerner 6y ago
    Polyphony on keyboards is less about physically playing multiple keys at once, but having the sound of multiple keys audible as they decay. Even the cheapest keyboard will let you play many notes at once; those that will actually sound a large number of keys after you've hit them are pricier.
  - phkahler 6y ago
    Yeah, but they still exist and you'd be surprised at some of the models with this deficiency.
- thih9 6y ago
  > Get something with at least 61 full sized and weighted keys. As someone who plays a musical instrument as a hobby, getting an el cheapo toy seems a good first step to me. You get to see whether you actually enjoy playing and it lets you become familiar with the practice schedule. When you start to feel limited by your tool, you advance to a proper one. Otherwise you risk buying expensive gear and letting it collect dust 2 months later.
  - tonystride 6y ago
    Some low price keyboards are so bad that they might not properly convey the fun of piano because of their limited function and make you think you don't like it. You've gotta make sure that what you buy gives you an accurate picture of what it is like to play a quality instrument because a crappy instrument is not fun. For example I bought a $200 keyboard once because I thought it would lighten my load as a gigging pianist. Nice and light, 88 keys, built in speaker. Much better than lugging around my thousands of dollars of pro gear. But when I got it, it didn't have weighted keys, ok not fun but I can deal with that, but then it didn't have velocity sensitivity... Every note was just on/off. This was a deal breaker, it is strait up not fun to play a piano like that. I mean it's in the name Piano/Forte the instrument that can play loud and soft.
tonystride 6y ago
I would say no cheaper than $500 from Roland, Yamaha, or Casio.
publicola1990 6y ago
I would recommend a casio S300, should cost about 135$. Has touch sensitivity, and about 400 built in sound bank, ear phone jack, light and easy to carry/store as well.
Cactus2018 6y ago
He says "el cheapo keyboard", but the search term would be "MIDI keyboard controller"
dbrgn 6y ago
I bought a weighted Yamaha Arius e-piano (YDP-163) about 3 years ago and am very happy with it! (Cost was around 1000$ I think, but there are also cheaper models.) I had a very cheap children's keyboard with non-weighted keys before. It was totally frustrating to play on that. Weighted keys made a world of a difference!
jacquesm 6y ago
I'd scrounge craigslist and ebay for a lightly used Yamaha, Kawai or Roland digital piano. $300-400 should get you something that is next to brand new. People do a lot of impulse buying find out that it is hard work and then get rid of them again.

gjulianm 6y ago

Sorry but I have to disagree a lot. An app is not the best way to learn piano. Piano is not just about pressing keys. Does the app correct your position (important if you don't want to get fatigue and cramps), your volume, fingerings, etc? Does it tell you how to practice the parts where you're struggling? > connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard Please don't do that. I mean, if you just want to give it a try to piano and not spend anything, yeah, go ahead, but a small keyboard with non-weighted keys will limit you a lot, even early on. The sound is terrible, you won't be able to control the volume properly, and getting a better technique to play better and faster will be far more difficult. Not to mention that at some point you will try to use the extra keys and if they're are not there you can't do anything. If you want to seriously take up piano, just buy a decent keyboard at the start, you'll end up needing it anyways. Edit: Don't get me wrong, anything that gets more people into playing music is good. But I think it's also good if people know the advantages and limitations of the method they use to learn, and are able to choose the method that fits their expectations. If you just want to poke your nose into piano playing maybe an app is enough for you, but there are no shortcuts and no magic method.

publicola1990 6y ago
Yes but in comparison with the same time spent on a game like 2077, even app lets people make progress.
- Scarbutt 6y ago
  And create bad piano habits that are harder to correct later, but sure, depends on your goals.
mike_h 6y ago
This advice is debatable anymore. If your goal is to really go deep on acoustic, traditional piano then sure. But if you just want to make music in a modern way (on the computer), or even just want to try it out for a year or two before deciding this is a lifetime hobby to invest thousands of dollars and hours into, then cheap midi keyboard plus app is more than fine. Especially if the app makes it fun for you.

kace91 6y ago

I've been learning due to covid as well! I would add earpeggio and music tutor for iOS (not affiliated, there are other similar apps). It's basically a Duolingo-like way to get used to reading sheet music and ear training respectively, you just put in 5 min a day and in a matter of weeks you're able to read sheet music relatively well.

snvzz 6y ago

Something properly weighted. $700-1000.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
duiker101 6y ago
who doesn't have that cash laying around just to try an hobby?
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Why buy new?
- snvzz 6y ago
  Buying used is an option. Learning Piano is unpleasant on a non-weighted keyboard, and bad habit forming is a very real issue. I remembered that Synthesia's got some specific advice: https://synthesiagame.com/keyboards/info https://synthesiagame.com/keyboards/info

dade_ 6y ago

People can disagree with you all they want about the app. I figured out how to play with both hands at the same time with Simply Piano. To me, that is magical. Also, it's fun. I am using a M-Audio keyboard, which senses speed and was good to get started, and now I feel proficient enough that I want to buy a digital piano. Looking at Kawai, but can't visit a music store showroom because of COVID lockdown. Maybe in time I will change my mind, but I think it makes perfect sense to use a basic MIDI keyboard to learn the keys and notes while deciding if it is something enjoyable and worth a substantial financial investment.

jhawk28 6y ago
The Roland FP-30 has the best piano feel at the low end. The Kawai MP11SE is considered to be the best at any price range.

peterkelly 6y ago

Apps can be useful but there is simply no replacement for having an experienced person observe your playing and giving you feedback. A good teacher can pick up on problems early and correct them, saving you hundreds of hours. They can also answer certain types of questions very easily that you might never be able to find via google.

rubyn00bie 6y ago

Nice slur drop... for literally no reason. > to an el cheapo midi keyboard. El cheapo? You could just have said cheap and not come across as prick.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
LOL, never realized that was a slur — I've heard it most of my life and took it to be humorous in a self-deprecating way: as in I'm so dumb this is how I think you can fake speaking Spanish. Like "cheapio midio" is my attempt at Italian.
- rubyn00bie 6y ago
  Really? I honestly can’t express how truly depressing and miserable your comment is. Self deprecating to use another language incorrectly to “humble” yourself? Seems pretty obviously racist. It’s like saying “Ching Chong China virus” and calling it self-deprecating. Petty fucking gross. Wish I had the confidence of a white person to never think about my affect on others... or what language can do. Let alone to get paid like one since I get to put up with ignorant shit like this on the daily.
  - sandGorgon 6y ago
    I apologise for the phrase I used. I was not aware that it had a slur built into it. My linguistic humor is based off the internet - English is not my first language. Im Indian and most definitely not white. However will still apologise for it.
    - Redoubts 6y ago
      Don’t apologize to this absurd person
  - dempseye 6y ago
    This seems like the form of aggressive linguistic policing that the modern American so-called left engages in constantly. It strikes me as a wanton desire to get offended as a pretext to deliver a lecture about cultural sensitivity, thereby elevating the lecturer and diminishing the person receiving the lecture. It is immensely tedious and almost everybody is sick of it. The person you are responding to obviously did not speak with any ill intent. He or she would probably have been more amenable to your viewpoint if you hadn't assumed malice and gone on the attack. First you accuse him of racism then say something derogatory about white people. Do you not see the contradiction, or are you one of those who subscribe to the ideological position that anti-white racism is impossible by definition? And if you suggested to the average Spanish person that they are not "white" they'd laugh at you.

lscotte 6y ago

I tried a few of these apps but I wasn't really learning anything. Eventually, I found pianote.com and I couldn't be more happy - it's worth checking out as another option for online piano learning (they also have drum and guitar programs). I agree not to buy an expensive piano (or keyboard). While a fully weighted 88-key instrument is definitely ideal, you can get by just fine on a semi, or even el-cheapo, 61-key keyboard.

nautilus12 6y ago

This will teach you to play keyboard but not piano. There is ALOT more to piano than pressing keys at the right time. It's as nuanced an instrument as the violin, but you don't know that unless you've studied professionally or played on a good instrument

kidproquo 6y ago

Completely agree on the Simply Piano plus MIDI approach. My autistic son is musically inclined, can play piano by ear. We have struggled trying to get him formally trained to read music. Then we found Simply Piano. He's taken to it very well, treating it as a game. This is the only way we have managed to get him to read music. We use it in conjunction with a music teacher via Zoom. Here's a video of him playing https://youtu.be/NEa9X36e7Vo https://youtu.be/NEa9X36e7Vo

jacquesm 6y ago
That's quite lovely, thank you for posting!

Brian_K_White 6y ago

How can I decide between these opposing arguments that both sound reasonable? Well who is recommending that real teachers don't matter? "I just started learning piano..." That's who.

rdiddly 6y ago

I love this little sub-thread. I don't know what it is about piano in particular that brings out the nail-biting. You don't seem to get that with guitar for example. What I like is that there's a lot of concern-for-others visible, which is admirable. The place where it strays into misplaced concern though (kind of as usual in life) is where in some cases there's a disproportionate intensity of concern that seems to indicate projection of each writer's own unconscious issues. I will now proceed to probably project my own, but just keep in mind... Why should someone care so much how someone else learns piano or how much piano they learn? And why should the 2nd someone care what the 1st someone thinks in the first place? Mira, does it sound good, ¿sí o no? That's the only thing you need to ask yourself. If it sounds bad, try harder. (Or don't. Since it's for you and has no meaning except what you bring to it, and since it's near-worthless as a way to pay the bills, you're kind of free to do whatever. Maybe that freedom demotivates some people. That too is fine.) The argument for a structured approach or formal lessons tends to be that it prevents learning "bad habits." But what's wrong with finding that out for yourself, i.e. finding out that you learned a bad habit by progressing to the point that you notice the habit is bad? And then you either live with it (as many of them will actually be pretty inconsequential) or work to change it. I can even make a case that unlearning a bad habit is superior in some ways to never developing it. Because first of all, the way you reach "good piano player" status is always by passing through "shitty piano player" status, but secondly, an analogy: The way you mature to the point where you see that, let's say doing drugs (another bad habit for some people) isn't so good for you, is by doing drugs and then quitting, not by "just saying no" from the getgo. What the fuck does a Nancy Reagan type know about drugs? Someone who quits drugs knows all about it. Ah but the additional knowledge takes (or if you think in terms of maximizing piano throughput like some industrial process, it wastes) additional time. If your parents have you convinced that your survival depends on getting early-admitted to Juilliard by age 14, yeah that is gonna hurt you. You can't spare the time to do it "wrong" or even to question whether doing it is bringing you any joy in the first place for that matter. But if you're willing to wait until age 18 for Juilliard, that gives you another 4 years to unlearn the bad habit. Plenty of time. 4 more years of playing piano, which is what you were trying to do in the first place.

syncopatience 6y ago