4 ms·

Violin at ripe old age of 25. The key for me was enjoyment... playing with others, picking the kind of music I vibe with, not bothering with exercises that are

by kosma 6y ago

Violin at ripe old age of 25. The key for me was enjoyment... playing with others, picking the kind of music I vibe with, not bothering with exercises that are devoid of emotion and joy. I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier, which made a few people raise an eyebrow, but... I don't care. I'm here to enjoy it, not to become a purist. Can I real sheet music? Nope. Do I understand all the fancy words describing techniques? No. Am I good at this? Good enough that when I play, people dance. That counts as a success in my book.

cipherboy 6y ago
\o fellow violinist here. Never thought about frets, but a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. Usually it'd only go to about 2nd position at most. You have a reference point for where to place your finger, but it doesn't impact pitch (and prevent vibrato) as much as a fret would. Just something to think about... :)
- madhadron 6y ago
  > a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. I have come to dislike this method. It gets the student focused on looking at the fingerboard and using the small lateral muscles in their fingers to try to reach for the tape rather than finding the large muscle positioning and biomechanics that produces in tune fingerings. Hold up your hand with fingers straight. Try spreading your fingers and then pulling them together fast. They kind of "pop" between the two positions, and if you look at the spread position, they're basically the same distance apart. So if you can arrange your arm so that spread drops an in-tune whole step on the fingerboard and together drops an in-tune half step, you will play in tune. You do that by rotating your elbow under the instrument. The farther toward your back the elbow is, the more your hand is angled from the neck, and the closer the spacing between where your fingers fall on the fingerboard. The more your push your elbow forward, the more your fingers fall farther apart on the strings. There's an in-tune position for each of the four strings, and kind of inbetweens for double stops. Training your gross muscle memory to find that position is vastly easier than searching for tapes, you don't get in the habit of looking at the fingerboard (because there's nothing there that makes a difference), and you don't get slowed down later because your lateral muscles in your fingers are tense and making your fingers move slower. The funny thing is that I think this was described in Geminiani's treatise, which was the first manual of violin playing ever.
  - cipherboy 6y ago
    OP was using frets, so I mentioned tapes... :-) Fundamentally, technique differs a lot based on size of the player. Ricci vs Perlman vs Shaham vs Midori vs Hahn vs Paganini, they all make the technique looks effortless. And the a lot reason why is because they've spent a lot of time removing bad tension from their playing. While elbow positioning does matter, it is more a function of string and third vs fifth hand position. The fingerboard is curved, not flat, and you want the finger to land normal to the board for any given string. Look for the work of Sol Babitz, or if you can't find it, Borivoj Martinic-Jercic's forward to his exercises. For me, what helped the most was removing the shoulder rest during practice. You become accutely aware of the the delicate balancing act that needs to occur, and the forces you put on the instrument. With time, you can develop balance in the left hand and achieve better dexterity than before. For anyone with sufficiently long neck, you can no longer rely on continual holding, and need to support the instrument (in fixed position sections) via the thumb. This encourages you to release pressure on the digits as you play. :-) But like OP said, they're happy so why mess with what works for them. :-) P.S. what rep are you working on? Feel free to drop me an email if you're interested in discussing more.
    - madhadron 6y ago
      > Fundamentally, technique differs a lot based on size of the player. I'm not sure about this. I'm tall and have huge hands, but I've seen the same approach work for quite small people. The actual technique you end up with can look quite different, but I think the goal is pedagogy that directs attention to the right things and let the rest fall in place around it. > you want the finger to land normal to the board for any given string. It's not clear to me why that would be. I don't have access to a music library anymore, so the Babitz stuff looks like it might be hard to find, but the Martinic-Jercic book looks really interesting. Thanks! > For me, what helped the most was removing the shoulder rest during practice. When I decided I didn't have time to maintain both a Baroque and a modern technique, I ended up merging them. Haven't used a shoulder rest in years, but I do use a low, center mount chinrest with a gel pad on it. I'm actually starting on the Bach two part inventions on piano these days in my small amount of time I allocate to music. I haven't touched my violin in months, sadly.
jonfromsf 6y ago
Putting frets on your fiddle is a brilliant idea. Well done!
madhadron 6y ago
> I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier It's not totally crazy. Fretted, bowed instruments have a long history, such as the viola da gamba. The frets there have more to do with tone than pitch, though.

by kosma 6y ago

cipherboy 6y ago

\o fellow violinist here. Never thought about frets, but a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. Usually it'd only go to about 2nd position at most. You have a reference point for where to place your finger, but it doesn't impact pitch (and prevent vibrato) as much as a fret would. Just something to think about... :)

madhadron 6y ago
> a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. I have come to dislike this method. It gets the student focused on looking at the fingerboard and using the small lateral muscles in their fingers to try to reach for the tape rather than finding the large muscle positioning and biomechanics that produces in tune fingerings. Hold up your hand with fingers straight. Try spreading your fingers and then pulling them together fast. They kind of "pop" between the two positions, and if you look at the spread position, they're basically the same distance apart. So if you can arrange your arm so that spread drops an in-tune whole step on the fingerboard and together drops an in-tune half step, you will play in tune. You do that by rotating your elbow under the instrument. The farther toward your back the elbow is, the more your hand is angled from the neck, and the closer the spacing between where your fingers fall on the fingerboard. The more your push your elbow forward, the more your fingers fall farther apart on the strings. There's an in-tune position for each of the four strings, and kind of inbetweens for double stops. Training your gross muscle memory to find that position is vastly easier than searching for tapes, you don't get in the habit of looking at the fingerboard (because there's nothing there that makes a difference), and you don't get slowed down later because your lateral muscles in your fingers are tense and making your fingers move slower. The funny thing is that I think this was described in Geminiani's treatise, which was the first manual of violin playing ever.
- cipherboy 6y ago
  OP was using frets, so I mentioned tapes... :-) Fundamentally, technique differs a lot based on size of the player. Ricci vs Perlman vs Shaham vs Midori vs Hahn vs Paganini, they all make the technique looks effortless. And the a lot reason why is because they've spent a lot of time removing bad tension from their playing. While elbow positioning does matter, it is more a function of string and third vs fifth hand position. The fingerboard is curved, not flat, and you want the finger to land normal to the board for any given string. Look for the work of Sol Babitz, or if you can't find it, Borivoj Martinic-Jercic's forward to his exercises. For me, what helped the most was removing the shoulder rest during practice. You become accutely aware of the the delicate balancing act that needs to occur, and the forces you put on the instrument. With time, you can develop balance in the left hand and achieve better dexterity than before. For anyone with sufficiently long neck, you can no longer rely on continual holding, and need to support the instrument (in fixed position sections) via the thumb. This encourages you to release pressure on the digits as you play. :-) But like OP said, they're happy so why mess with what works for them. :-) P.S. what rep are you working on? Feel free to drop me an email if you're interested in discussing more.
  - madhadron 6y ago
    > Fundamentally, technique differs a lot based on size of the player. I'm not sure about this. I'm tall and have huge hands, but I've seen the same approach work for quite small people. The actual technique you end up with can look quite different, but I think the goal is pedagogy that directs attention to the right things and let the rest fall in place around it. > you want the finger to land normal to the board for any given string. It's not clear to me why that would be. I don't have access to a music library anymore, so the Babitz stuff looks like it might be hard to find, but the Martinic-Jercic book looks really interesting. Thanks! > For me, what helped the most was removing the shoulder rest during practice. When I decided I didn't have time to maintain both a Baroque and a modern technique, I ended up merging them. Haven't used a shoulder rest in years, but I do use a low, center mount chinrest with a gel pad on it. I'm actually starting on the Bach two part inventions on piano these days in my small amount of time I allocate to music. I haven't touched my violin in months, sadly.

jonfromsf 6y ago

Putting frets on your fiddle is a brilliant idea. Well done!

madhadron 6y ago

> I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier It's not totally crazy. Fretted, bowed instruments have a long history, such as the viola da gamba. The frets there have more to do with tone than pitch, though.