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It seems rather lax already, to be honest. France requires five years of residency, the ability to speak French, and a basic understanding of French culture and

It seems rather lax already, to be honest. France requires five years of residency, the ability to speak French, and a basic understanding of French culture and civics. That really seems like the bare minimum for the state to take on a lifetime, irrevocable responsibility for a prospective immigrant.

ucha 6y ago
It's simpler than that in some cases, only 2 years of residency are needed if you're going to uni there.
Jacqued 6y ago
It's not five years to citizenship. After five years you get to apply. Then it takes about 4 years of administrative hell (with some traps that can get you back to square one) to get there. No one who is at all familiar with the French immigration system would tell you that it's "lax". It's generally a nightmare to navigate and it feels like it's designed to deter all but the most determined immigrants. Source: personal experience with friends and my so.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Anecdata, but a Cuban friend of ours has a French wife. Able to apply after 5 years and more or less got his French passport immediately after handing in the necessary documents and passing interviews and language tests. All in the same year he applied. Maybe it's different because of marriage, no idea. When you are not in France, the hardest part is to find someone to administer the necessary language test. Last time I checked there were two institutes in Germany with the proper certification, one in Frankfurt and one in Berlin. Then Covid hit I didn't check again. Paperwork seems to be a pain in the ass, so. That being said, it seems easier than getting German citizenship.
  - touisteur 6y ago
    Yes it's different because of marriage. It's 10 years of presence in France, that you can prove. Through marriage it's shorter, but you get the special 'white marriage' procedure to make sure you're not in it for the citizenship. Prove that you live and have been living together, that you've been a couple for some time... Didn't like this process at all.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Then I have something to look forward to, haven't I? Living abroad, outside of France, may change things again. Maybe next year, but I keep telling this myself for 3 years now. Hopefully kids and house will make that white marriage thing easier!
      - Fanch22 6y ago
        If you have kids together the verification is a breeze (and will likely be done over the phone).
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Being married to a French citizen makes things much, much easier. You still have to apply to filter out obviously problematic cases (and convenience marriages just for the purpose of getting citizenship) but otherwise it is mostly automatic. I think it is easier than getting German citizenship (and others: naturalisation in Switzerland is notoriously very difficult), but it’s not necessarily saying much.
- sofixa 6y ago
  When was that? Today the waiting time announced is 12-18 months, and personal experience, even with Covid and two lockdowns it took a bit more than a year.
thx2099100 6y ago
well that the theorical rules, in practice things can vary wildly. expescially on which prefecture/department you have to apply from. As another commenter said the time can be reduced to 2 year before you can apply but that doesn't mean much. From personal experience, I've been living in france for about 8 years now and everytime I have to deal with immigration services it can be a nightmare. here is one: after arriving when my visa comme close to an end by a few month I aplied to get a 1 year residency card, I got that card 2 years later just before I got my first diploma. every 3 months I would have to go to the prefecture at 6/7AM wait outside in the cold only to be told every now and then at 4pm sorry you're not going to pass today try again tommorow. why did I have to go every 3 month? well to give that the exact same papers I gave them the time before, If you didn't have them on you that day because you didn't think you would need to have a copy of the papers you've already given well that too bad for you. after 1year and a half of this, the person with whom I was having the apointement asked by I was here because apparently they can't find my folder. expect I have in my hand a document from this same prefecture aknowledging that I deposited my document and that I can legally stay for the next 3 months (and copies of the previous ones), of course I had to give them on the stop every document they needed or go back and wait for another apointement where you would have to explai the situation once a gain. this meant that every time I had to go to the prefecture I had a backpack on my back with every document I had on my house that I thought could remotly be relevant, because the official list of require documents is for indicative purposes only and they can ask you for a lot more on case to case basis. second anecdote, if you have a foreign driving living from a country with which france has an agreement with. you have exchange it for a french one once you start working withing the limit of 1 year. At the time I had to the only way to do it is by getting an apointement online, expect the website to get the apointement form is closed, it opne for less than 5 min while crashing continully on a sunday at midnight, after trying for I few month I sent emails explaining the situation -> no reponse and went in person to the prefecture only to be told sorry that's not our problem and was given no clue on how to try to fix this. thanks to covid the process for converting driving licenses is now fully online, I aplied when they first announced this beginning of last summer, I'm still waiting for any news positive or negative.
kergonath 6y ago
That’s the theory. Then you have appointments one year in the future. Of course you have to be there otherwise you have to wait months for another one. You also have to be there early because having an appointment does not necessarily mean that there will be someone for you, it just means that you can queue on that day. You might also have to travel quite a bit because the office to which you have to go is allocated unpredictably. Then, add all the difficulties an administration can throw at you (you sent an uncertified copy? too bad; the document with the exact title does not exist in your country of origin? Too bad; Records were lost because of a civil war? Too bad; You did not check the box L-430-b on the cf-740 form even though you should have because you were born on a full moon from parents working for a watchamacallit factory? Too bad; etc ad nauseam). These difficulties depend a lot on where you’re from; it’s quite different for rich Americans than for poor Malians. So yes, it’s generous on paper but the devil is in the implementation details, as with all bureaucracy. Also, it’s quite expensive if you consider the whole process.

ucha 6y ago

It's simpler than that in some cases, only 2 years of residency are needed if you're going to uni there.

Jacqued 6y ago

It's not five years to citizenship. After five years you get to apply. Then it takes about 4 years of administrative hell (with some traps that can get you back to square one) to get there. No one who is at all familiar with the French immigration system would tell you that it's "lax". It's generally a nightmare to navigate and it feels like it's designed to deter all but the most determined immigrants. Source: personal experience with friends and my so.

hef19898 6y ago
Anecdata, but a Cuban friend of ours has a French wife. Able to apply after 5 years and more or less got his French passport immediately after handing in the necessary documents and passing interviews and language tests. All in the same year he applied. Maybe it's different because of marriage, no idea. When you are not in France, the hardest part is to find someone to administer the necessary language test. Last time I checked there were two institutes in Germany with the proper certification, one in Frankfurt and one in Berlin. Then Covid hit I didn't check again. Paperwork seems to be a pain in the ass, so. That being said, it seems easier than getting German citizenship.
- touisteur 6y ago
  Yes it's different because of marriage. It's 10 years of presence in France, that you can prove. Through marriage it's shorter, but you get the special 'white marriage' procedure to make sure you're not in it for the citizenship. Prove that you live and have been living together, that you've been a couple for some time... Didn't like this process at all.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Then I have something to look forward to, haven't I? Living abroad, outside of France, may change things again. Maybe next year, but I keep telling this myself for 3 years now. Hopefully kids and house will make that white marriage thing easier!
    - Fanch22 6y ago
      If you have kids together the verification is a breeze (and will likely be done over the phone).
- kergonath 6y ago
  Being married to a French citizen makes things much, much easier. You still have to apply to filter out obviously problematic cases (and convenience marriages just for the purpose of getting citizenship) but otherwise it is mostly automatic. I think it is easier than getting German citizenship (and others: naturalisation in Switzerland is notoriously very difficult), but it’s not necessarily saying much.
sofixa 6y ago
When was that? Today the waiting time announced is 12-18 months, and personal experience, even with Covid and two lockdowns it took a bit more than a year.

thx2099100 6y ago

well that the theorical rules, in practice things can vary wildly. expescially on which prefecture/department you have to apply from. As another commenter said the time can be reduced to 2 year before you can apply but that doesn't mean much. From personal experience, I've been living in france for about 8 years now and everytime I have to deal with immigration services it can be a nightmare. here is one: after arriving when my visa comme close to an end by a few month I aplied to get a 1 year residency card, I got that card 2 years later just before I got my first diploma. every 3 months I would have to go to the prefecture at 6/7AM wait outside in the cold only to be told every now and then at 4pm sorry you're not going to pass today try again tommorow. why did I have to go every 3 month? well to give that the exact same papers I gave them the time before, If you didn't have them on you that day because you didn't think you would need to have a copy of the papers you've already given well that too bad for you. after 1year and a half of this, the person with whom I was having the apointement asked by I was here because apparently they can't find my folder. expect I have in my hand a document from this same prefecture aknowledging that I deposited my document and that I can legally stay for the next 3 months (and copies of the previous ones), of course I had to give them on the stop every document they needed or go back and wait for another apointement where you would have to explai the situation once a gain. this meant that every time I had to go to the prefecture I had a backpack on my back with every document I had on my house that I thought could remotly be relevant, because the official list of require documents is for indicative purposes only and they can ask you for a lot more on case to case basis. second anecdote, if you have a foreign driving living from a country with which france has an agreement with. you have exchange it for a french one once you start working withing the limit of 1 year. At the time I had to the only way to do it is by getting an apointement online, expect the website to get the apointement form is closed, it opne for less than 5 min while crashing continully on a sunday at midnight, after trying for I few month I sent emails explaining the situation -> no reponse and went in person to the prefecture only to be told sorry that's not our problem and was given no clue on how to try to fix this. thanks to covid the process for converting driving licenses is now fully online, I aplied when they first announced this beginning of last summer, I'm still waiting for any news positive or negative.

kergonath 6y ago

That’s the theory. Then you have appointments one year in the future. Of course you have to be there otherwise you have to wait months for another one. You also have to be there early because having an appointment does not necessarily mean that there will be someone for you, it just means that you can queue on that day. You might also have to travel quite a bit because the office to which you have to go is allocated unpredictably. Then, add all the difficulties an administration can throw at you (you sent an uncertified copy? too bad; the document with the exact title does not exist in your country of origin? Too bad; Records were lost because of a civil war? Too bad; You did not check the box L-430-b on the cf-740 form even though you should have because you were born on a full moon from parents working for a watchamacallit factory? Too bad; etc ad nauseam). These difficulties depend a lot on where you’re from; it’s quite different for rich Americans than for poor Malians. So yes, it’s generous on paper but the devil is in the implementation details, as with all bureaucracy. Also, it’s quite expensive if you consider the whole process.