2 ms·
I can't vouch for everything about Japan's immigration policy, nor do I have first-hand experience with the US system. But despite Japan intaking a lot less, pe
by rtpg 6y ago
I can't vouch for everything about Japan's immigration policy, nor do I have first-hand experience with the US system. But despite Japan intaking a lot less, people who meet the "baseline requirements" (basically, college degree) can be consistently assured that they can get a work visa and not get arbitrarily kicked out of the country.
Similarly, even the smallest companies (like miniscule, 5-people startups) are able to get visas for people who meet the college degree requirement with basically no issue.
Also, they don't tie your work visa to your employer[1], so you don't get indentured servitude or the threat of getting kicked out of the country after being fired.
Meanwhile I have heard countless horror stories from many people trying to do even the most basic stuff when it comes to immigration in the US. And it sure sounds like you are, at a basic level, treated like a suspicious person who might be a criminal.
You can say "oh look at the numbers" but I have heard roughly zero positive things about the American immigration experience. And (what I think is the most important thing), I have heard many stories about the opacity and randomness of the American bureaucracy.
And, you know what? Most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit. And they don't try to hold it over the head of the person. It's possible to have an immigration system that doesn't treat the people coming in as indentured servants.
[1] HSFP visa non-excepting, but if you can get HSFP you can get a standard working visa
- bruceb 6y agoIf the US had Japan's policy you would hear a lot more complaints as relatively few people would be allowed in. Japan has less than 3m immigrants TOTAL. The US takes in about 1 million a Year. "most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit." Neither does the US. Most of the time the crimes that lead to deportation are felonies. Why is the US obligated to keep non citizens who commit serious crimes? The US is under no obligation to take anyone. The system certainly isn't perfect, warrants criticize. But some of the complaints are ridiculous and come down to again way more demand than supply. (Update, I don't agree with you, but I hope HNers will not downvote you as a few are)
- rtpg 6y agoJapan doesn't have low numbers because of immigration quotas (they are in fact _trying_ to bring in more people, for its own reasons), and they have no immigration quotas. So I think the system would be welcome to many people who want to go to the US and who can meet the college degree criteria. Of course countries can do whatever they want (just from the notion of application of power). But I see immigration as a two way street. There's an invitation to come into a society, and a request to participate in it. Other people in society get second chances, they get opportunities to improve... I feel like extending that to everyone is the logical conclusion of a just society. And... yeah maybe there's some abstract notions that underpin the US system. But when you look at the facts on the ground, I just don't see how you justify the draconian decisions applied to people after they've been a part of society for so long. What's the point of a bunch of theory if the practice turns into things like "ICE can lock someone up for years without them being allowed to see a judge"? At least it's not at Australia-level cruelty, I guess...
- foerbert 6y agoI suspect some of the reasons you and the person responding to you are not quite seeing eye to eye is that "immigration" has wrapped up both legal and illegal immigration. It's possible the US is relatively open to legal immigration compared to some countries while also being particularly egregious in it's handling of illegal immigration. Even beyond than that, there are multiple facets of both legal and illegal immigration. Maybe the US both accepts larger numbers of immigrants legally but is also more intolerant of certain kinds of applicants than others. When dealing with huge issues, I think it's deceptively easy to simplify the issue more than you realize. I know I've ended up in arguments where after far too much effort I realized we both actually more or less agreed with each other, but were simply focusing on different aspects of a larger issue.