6 ms·

Future of the library - Seth Godin

56 points by aghilmort 15y ago

adeaver 15y ago
While on the whole I agree with much of what Seth is saying (the library is basically a warehouse of old books) I don't think the library itself as we see it today is going anywhere or will change in any significant way until e-books become far more prevalent than they are right now.
- paganel 15y ago
  With an online library how are you going to "serendipitously" find new books from other domains you don't know you're interested in? I remember when I was 14 or 15, I was going to our small-town's public library once every 2 days or so, I was reading all the SF books I could find. The thing is that the SF books shelf was just after the history books shelf, and, even though I liked history, I never would have thought of reading history books if it weren't for me passing in front of that history books shelf each and every time.
  - stcredzero 15y ago
    With an online library how are you going to "serendipitously" find new books from other domains you don't know you're interested in? Google could handle this with "I'm Feeling Lucky." I seem to remember delicious.com doing something like this. How about a serendipity web app that tries to figure out/crowdsource what you never knew you'd be interested in?
  - adeaver 15y ago
    Recommendation engines are getting pretty good at this. It's always going to be hit or miss no matter what method you invoke. Friends, browsing, engines... nothing will always be perfect.
  - bricestacey 15y ago
    You harvest book covers and then sort them by call number. Google something to the effect of "virtual shelf browser". It's ugly and isn't very effective, but neither is scanning the spines of hundreds of books.
albedoa 15y ago
It's Monday, and it's early, so I read half of that wondering why Seth Godin was writing for Reddit :-/
sivers 15y ago
Real URL without top frame: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/05/the-future-of-the-library.html http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/05/the-future-o...
- albedoa 15y ago
  Looks like this submitter might need an education: http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=aghilmort http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=aghilmort
antidaily 15y ago
I agree with him... if the librarian exists online and not in an old building 5 miles away. And kids have computers. That's not enough to lure them to a library. Many libraries have Wiis and Xboxes these days. That's not working either.
- docgnome 15y ago
  Seriously? Do you have an article that talks about game consoles in a library?
  - antidaily 15y ago
    http://www.aadl.org/aadlgt http://www.aadl.org/aadlgt
TheloniusPhunk 15y ago
Libraries aren't going anywhere. I think they will transition from relatively large storage place facility physical books, to a hub for study. It's already happened, really. All my collegiate library studying took place via online databases like EBSCOhost, but this much is pretty obvious. What is more obscure, and will be more interesting to see is how the library evolves culturally in the coming years.
- nkassis 15y ago
  I think this is an important function of libraries too. It's a nice quiet place and with enough work room to read and relax. With that said, other than at Universities, I doubt many people think that's a valuable thing. The value of libraries is hard to quantify and in policy discussion that's not a good thing for libraries.
- bricestacey 15y ago
  I would disagree that libraries aren't going anywhere. Any institution could subscribe to EBSCO, Gale, JSTOR, etc, etc without the overhead of a library or librarians.
scorchin 15y ago
As far as the user-interface of printed books are concerned there is a very minimal, and understandable, set of features: - it boots instantly - has a high contrast and high resolution display - is viewable from any angle, in bright or dim light - permits fast random access to any page - provides instant visual and tactile feedback on the location - can be easily annotated - requires no batteries or maintenance. Current e-Readers cannot meet all of these specifications. Books do a great job of conveying static information; computers let information change. In my opinion, the local library will continue to exist as a place of knowledge if it can evolve to provide the tools to access changing/shared information. Otherwise, it'll just end up being a quiet place for students to work.
- jamesrcole 15y ago
  some minor points: > - is viewable from any angle, in bright or dim light they don't work great in poor light (I usually read in bed at night and have to use a head-lamp to brighten the page) > - can be easily annotated though you can go an add annotations to library books, the situation with annotating them is less than ideal. ebooks are potentially better in this respect. the other thing w/ physical books is that they easily get heavy when you have to carry around several of them.
- stcredzero 15y ago
  Current e-Readers cannot meet all of these specifications. We are pretty close, actually. I've booted my iPad only a few times in the past 3 months. The rest of the time, it's been in standby mode, and it "comes up" pretty much instantly. It is high contrast/high resolution. If it's not high contrast/high resolution enough, this is bound to improve. I've never had a problem with viewing angle or in dim light. Bright light visibility should improve. Random access has been good for me, including the use case of using programming books for reference. There is visual feedback, and I haven't missed tactile feedback. There are ways to annotate PDFs on the iPad. The iPad requires no batteries, and the maintenance has been limited to syncing and updating OS software. So, to meet your requirements, the next iPad just has to: - be viewable in bright light - incorporate tactile feedback (or equivalent) Perhaps improve in these ways: - increased display resolution - reduced maintenance - better annotation
hsmyers 15y ago
The constant references to 'dead paper' belie the denials that Mr. Godin is not anti-book. Of course he is. And with that blind spot in his perspective he misses a number of advantages found only in a library. I've been wandering up and down the aisles of libraries since just after I learned to read. The number of things that I read that were not on any particular list is countless. Bit hard to do with a search engine. And there is no point in even trying to describe the problem of the enormous number of books not yet digitized. Does anyone seriously think that just because a book is 'old' that it's contents have no value? Most of the necessary and important books on both chess and weaving (to name to disparate subjects) are 'old' and for the most part are not available in digital versions. I guess in Mr. Godin's universe we throw all of that away and start over. Small aside---did you know that there is a library with over a 100k volumes on chess? These are just some of the holes in his arguments that occur to me as a book-lover and library-fan...
- GavinB 15y ago
  A book is not defined by being made of paper. Godin is pro-book but recognizes that the future of the book is as a digital file. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a continuing role for librarians who act as archivists of valuable paper books. But that number of librarians is vastly less than the number currently in existence. Librarians who refuse to give up paper books are like record shops who refused to give up vinyl. Sure, a few will stick around--but the vast majority will have to move on.
  - atacrawl 15y ago
    Librarians who refuse to give up paper books are like record shops who refused to give up vinyl. You write this as though the "physical vs. digital" battle has long been fought and won. The reality is that the landscape has barely begun to be fleshed out among libraries, and despite that, libraries are already adjusting their budgets to accommodate the inevitable sea change. The stereotype of the stubborn librarian in sensible shoes and tweed, clutching her Emily Bronte and refusing to acknowledge the existence of digital books, just doesn't represent the mainstream position among librarians.
ganley 15y ago
What about the people who don't have a computer (much less Netflix or a Kindle) at home? 40% of American households have no broadband, and 18% have no internet access at all. They can take a book home with them, and they don't need a computer or an internet connection to use it.
- jerf 15y ago
  Read it again, more carefully. You've made an unjustified assumption.
atacrawl 15y ago
The librarian isn't a clerk who happens to work at a library. A librarian is a data hound, a guide, a sherpa and a teacher. The librarian is the interface between reams of data and the untrained but motivated user. It's really refreshing to read this -- my wife is a librarian, and when she tells people that she has a Masters degree in library science, people will literally scoff and say things like "why do you need a Masters degree for that?" As a whole, it's a disrespected profession, not just because people look down it, but because most people think it's irrelevant. (At least teachers, who are shit on even more than librarians, are relevant in everyone's eyes.) And to teach them how to use a soldering iron or take apart something with no user servicable parts inside. He lost me here, is he really suggesting that modern libraries need to become vocational training centers?
jerf 15y ago
It seems to me there's a harmonious intersection between this idea of the library, and the non-Prussian-schooling approaches. Get enough of the non-Prussian-schoolers and an open-minded librarian together in one place armed with the right equipment, and this sort of stuff could just almost spontaneously start happening.
mcburton 15y ago
I struggled reading past the "Netflix is a better librarian" comment. Netflix is not a librarian, it is a library-like PLACE. Netflix probably hires librarians or information professionals trained in librarianship to organize their data and user experience. The public library system is only one of many endpoints for a library trained information-professional. For the past decade library schools have been re-branding as iSchools; producing UX/HCI professionals who go on to work at places like Netflix (hence the "Netflix is a library-like PLACE"). In the interest of full disclosure I am currently getting a PhD at an iSchool so I have a different understanding of the social categories "librarian" and "library." Even so, as every schoolboy knows, a thing cannot be a librarian. IT'S PEOPLE, NETFLIX IS MADE OF PEOPLE.
bricestacey 15y ago
We worry about this in my library. I believe the ultimate problem is that the value of a librarian does not scale very well and incumbent librarians don't necessarily have the skills or life experiences to pull it off. From my experience, short of working with PhDs, very few librarians actually perform complex tasks. So you have highly skilled laborers answering mundane reference questions all day. I predict most academic libraries will cease to exist and be replaced with large computer labs and study halls, with their electronic resources managed by IT departments and daily operations (circulation, interlibrary loan, copy cataloging) performed by work-study students and paraprofessionals.

56 points by aghilmort 15y ago

While on the whole I agree with much of what Seth is saying (the library is basically a warehouse of old books) I don't think the library itself as we see it today is going anywhere or will change in any significant way until e-books become far more prevalent than they are right now.

paganel 15y ago
With an online library how are you going to "serendipitously" find new books from other domains you don't know you're interested in? I remember when I was 14 or 15, I was going to our small-town's public library once every 2 days or so, I was reading all the SF books I could find. The thing is that the SF books shelf was just after the history books shelf, and, even though I liked history, I never would have thought of reading history books if it weren't for me passing in front of that history books shelf each and every time.
- stcredzero 15y ago
  With an online library how are you going to "serendipitously" find new books from other domains you don't know you're interested in? Google could handle this with "I'm Feeling Lucky." I seem to remember delicious.com doing something like this. How about a serendipity web app that tries to figure out/crowdsource what you never knew you'd be interested in?
- adeaver 15y ago
  Recommendation engines are getting pretty good at this. It's always going to be hit or miss no matter what method you invoke. Friends, browsing, engines... nothing will always be perfect.
- bricestacey 15y ago
  You harvest book covers and then sort them by call number. Google something to the effect of "virtual shelf browser". It's ugly and isn't very effective, but neither is scanning the spines of hundreds of books.

albedoa 15y ago

It's Monday, and it's early, so I read half of that wondering why Seth Godin was writing for Reddit :-/

sivers 15y ago

Real URL without top frame: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/05/the-future-of-the-library.html http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/05/the-future-o...

albedoa 15y ago
Looks like this submitter might need an education: http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=aghilmort http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=aghilmort

antidaily 15y ago

I agree with him... if the librarian exists online and not in an old building 5 miles away. And kids have computers. That's not enough to lure them to a library. Many libraries have Wiis and Xboxes these days. That's not working either.

docgnome 15y ago
Seriously? Do you have an article that talks about game consoles in a library?
- antidaily 15y ago
  http://www.aadl.org/aadlgt http://www.aadl.org/aadlgt

TheloniusPhunk 15y ago

Libraries aren't going anywhere. I think they will transition from relatively large storage place facility physical books, to a hub for study. It's already happened, really. All my collegiate library studying took place via online databases like EBSCOhost, but this much is pretty obvious. What is more obscure, and will be more interesting to see is how the library evolves culturally in the coming years.

nkassis 15y ago
I think this is an important function of libraries too. It's a nice quiet place and with enough work room to read and relax. With that said, other than at Universities, I doubt many people think that's a valuable thing. The value of libraries is hard to quantify and in policy discussion that's not a good thing for libraries.
bricestacey 15y ago
I would disagree that libraries aren't going anywhere. Any institution could subscribe to EBSCO, Gale, JSTOR, etc, etc without the overhead of a library or librarians.

scorchin 15y ago

As far as the user-interface of printed books are concerned there is a very minimal, and understandable, set of features: - it boots instantly - has a high contrast and high resolution display - is viewable from any angle, in bright or dim light - permits fast random access to any page - provides instant visual and tactile feedback on the location - can be easily annotated - requires no batteries or maintenance. Current e-Readers cannot meet all of these specifications. Books do a great job of conveying static information; computers let information change. In my opinion, the local library will continue to exist as a place of knowledge if it can evolve to provide the tools to access changing/shared information. Otherwise, it'll just end up being a quiet place for students to work.

jamesrcole 15y ago
some minor points: > - is viewable from any angle, in bright or dim light they don't work great in poor light (I usually read in bed at night and have to use a head-lamp to brighten the page) > - can be easily annotated though you can go an add annotations to library books, the situation with annotating them is less than ideal. ebooks are potentially better in this respect. the other thing w/ physical books is that they easily get heavy when you have to carry around several of them.
stcredzero 15y ago
Current e-Readers cannot meet all of these specifications. We are pretty close, actually. I've booted my iPad only a few times in the past 3 months. The rest of the time, it's been in standby mode, and it "comes up" pretty much instantly. It is high contrast/high resolution. If it's not high contrast/high resolution enough, this is bound to improve. I've never had a problem with viewing angle or in dim light. Bright light visibility should improve. Random access has been good for me, including the use case of using programming books for reference. There is visual feedback, and I haven't missed tactile feedback. There are ways to annotate PDFs on the iPad. The iPad requires no batteries, and the maintenance has been limited to syncing and updating OS software. So, to meet your requirements, the next iPad just has to: - be viewable in bright light - incorporate tactile feedback (or equivalent) Perhaps improve in these ways: - increased display resolution - reduced maintenance - better annotation

hsmyers 15y ago

The constant references to 'dead paper' belie the denials that Mr. Godin is not anti-book. Of course he is. And with that blind spot in his perspective he misses a number of advantages found only in a library. I've been wandering up and down the aisles of libraries since just after I learned to read. The number of things that I read that were not on any particular list is countless. Bit hard to do with a search engine. And there is no point in even trying to describe the problem of the enormous number of books not yet digitized. Does anyone seriously think that just because a book is 'old' that it's contents have no value? Most of the necessary and important books on both chess and weaving (to name to disparate subjects) are 'old' and for the most part are not available in digital versions. I guess in Mr. Godin's universe we throw all of that away and start over. Small aside---did you know that there is a library with over a 100k volumes on chess? These are just some of the holes in his arguments that occur to me as a book-lover and library-fan...

GavinB 15y ago
A book is not defined by being made of paper. Godin is pro-book but recognizes that the future of the book is as a digital file. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a continuing role for librarians who act as archivists of valuable paper books. But that number of librarians is vastly less than the number currently in existence. Librarians who refuse to give up paper books are like record shops who refused to give up vinyl. Sure, a few will stick around--but the vast majority will have to move on.
- atacrawl 15y ago
  Librarians who refuse to give up paper books are like record shops who refused to give up vinyl. You write this as though the "physical vs. digital" battle has long been fought and won. The reality is that the landscape has barely begun to be fleshed out among libraries, and despite that, libraries are already adjusting their budgets to accommodate the inevitable sea change. The stereotype of the stubborn librarian in sensible shoes and tweed, clutching her Emily Bronte and refusing to acknowledge the existence of digital books, just doesn't represent the mainstream position among librarians.

ganley 15y ago

What about the people who don't have a computer (much less Netflix or a Kindle) at home? 40% of American households have no broadband, and 18% have no internet access at all. They can take a book home with them, and they don't need a computer or an internet connection to use it.

jerf 15y ago
Read it again, more carefully. You've made an unjustified assumption.

atacrawl 15y ago

The librarian isn't a clerk who happens to work at a library. A librarian is a data hound, a guide, a sherpa and a teacher. The librarian is the interface between reams of data and the untrained but motivated user. It's really refreshing to read this -- my wife is a librarian, and when she tells people that she has a Masters degree in library science, people will literally scoff and say things like "why do you need a Masters degree for that?" As a whole, it's a disrespected profession, not just because people look down it, but because most people think it's irrelevant. (At least teachers, who are shit on even more than librarians, are relevant in everyone's eyes.) And to teach them how to use a soldering iron or take apart something with no user servicable parts inside. He lost me here, is he really suggesting that modern libraries need to become vocational training centers?

jerf 15y ago

It seems to me there's a harmonious intersection between this idea of the library, and the non-Prussian-schooling approaches. Get enough of the non-Prussian-schoolers and an open-minded librarian together in one place armed with the right equipment, and this sort of stuff could just almost spontaneously start happening.

mcburton 15y ago

I struggled reading past the "Netflix is a better librarian" comment. Netflix is not a librarian, it is a library-like PLACE. Netflix probably hires librarians or information professionals trained in librarianship to organize their data and user experience. The public library system is only one of many endpoints for a library trained information-professional. For the past decade library schools have been re-branding as iSchools; producing UX/HCI professionals who go on to work at places like Netflix (hence the "Netflix is a library-like PLACE"). In the interest of full disclosure I am currently getting a PhD at an iSchool so I have a different understanding of the social categories "librarian" and "library." Even so, as every schoolboy knows, a thing cannot be a librarian. IT'S PEOPLE, NETFLIX IS MADE OF PEOPLE.

bricestacey 15y ago

We worry about this in my library. I believe the ultimate problem is that the value of a librarian does not scale very well and incumbent librarians don't necessarily have the skills or life experiences to pull it off. From my experience, short of working with PhDs, very few librarians actually perform complex tasks. So you have highly skilled laborers answering mundane reference questions all day. I predict most academic libraries will cease to exist and be replaced with large computer labs and study halls, with their electronic resources managed by IT departments and daily operations (circulation, interlibrary loan, copy cataloging) performed by work-study students and paraprofessionals.