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jsx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html). Abstractions are good when you are trying to make something complex

jsx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html). Abstractions are good when you are trying to make something complex user-friendly and simple. > Throw in a routing library, and you are pretty much done. Ok routing library, now make an http request please without involving more dependencies.... > Throw Redux in See, exactly what I said: we are getting to the endless pages of dependencies. > 100ms latency per key press 100ms latency??!?!?!? In my world 100ms are centuries. > 1. Writing logic in one language that will generate HTML and Javascript 2. Debugging the HTML and Javascript generated in #1. I don't have a problem with that. At the end of the day you know exactly what you want to achieve and what the output should be, whereas react it's a guessing game each time. We are at a point where web "developers" wouldn't be able to tell you what html is. With server-side rendering, from maintenance perspective you have the luxury to use grep and not rely on post-market add ons, plugins and ide's in order to find and change the class of a span. The term SPA first came to my attention when I was in university over 10 years ago. My immediate thought was "this is retarded". Over a decade later, my opinion hasn't changed.

parzivalm 6y ago
> jsx is a retarded idea > My immediate thought was "this is retarded". It's generally frowned upon to use retarded in this manner. Not only is it insulting to people, it brings down the overall tone of your argument.
com2kid 6y ago
> 100ms latency??!?!?!? In my world 100ms are centuries Yup that's crappy. The ease of it happening, the Work At A Startup page used to have this issue (may still, haven't looked lately) shows that it isn't hard to make accidentally happen. As I said, it is a weakness of the system. > sx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html) Have you seen how minimal of an abstraction jsx is? It is a simple rewrite to a JS function that spits out HTML, but JSX is super nice to write and more grep-able than the majority of other templating systems. I have a predisposition to not liking templating systems, but JSX is the best part of React. Notably it doesn't invent it's own control flow language, unlike most competitors in this space. > My immediate thought was "this is retarded". Well the most famous SPA is gmail and it's rather popular, you may have heard of it. It is bloated now, but when it first debuted it was really good. Webmail sucked, then suddenly it didn't. Google maps. Outlook web client. Pandora. Online chat rooms, In browser video chat, (now with cool positional sound!) SPA just means you are just fetching the minimum needed data from the server to fulfill the user's request, instead of refetching the entire DOM. They are inherently an optimization. Non-SPAs can be slow bloated messes as well, e.g. the Expedia site.
- rektide 6y ago
  appreciated your previous tweet but I am falling asleep here & none of your rebuttals feel like they address the topics raised in a genuine/direct fashion. so many stronger points to make against this
rektide 6y ago
your posting is tribalistic & cruel & demeaning, it attacks and attacks and attacks. this is so hard to grapple with, so so aggressive & merciless & disrespectful. I beg you to reassess yourself. don't make people wade through such mudslinging. please. there's so few better ideas anywhere, & so much heaped up, so much muck you rake us take through. please don't keep doing this horrible negative thing. it's so unjust & so brutally harsh. > jsx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html). what programming languages do it better? one of reacts greatest boons, it's greatest innovations, in my mind, is that it gave up the cargo cult special purpose templating languages that we had for almost two decades assumed we needed. it brought the key sensibility of php to javascript: that there was no need, no gain, by treating html as something special. it should be dealt with in the language, in the code. if you have other places that have done a good job of being ripe for building html directly, without intermediation, as you seem to be a proponent of, let me/us know. jax seems intimately closer to me to what you purport to ask for than almost any other language that has come before! your words are a vexing contradiction. > Ok routing library, now make an http request please without involving more dependencies.... please stop being TERRIFIED of code. many routing libraries with dependencies aren tiny. stop panicking that there is code. react router v6 for example is 2.9kb. why so afraid bro? this is actually why the web is good. because there are many many many problems, but they are decoupled and a 2kB library builds a wonderful magical consistent & complete happy environment that proposes a good way of tackling the issues. you have to bring some architecture in but anyone can invent that architecture, the web platform is in opinionated ("principle of least power" x10,000,000), and the solutions tend towards tiny. redux is 2kB with dependencies as well.
- rektide 6y ago
  stop deleting flagged posts!! we will never ever improve if you keep deleting antithesis!!!!!! bad arguments are necessary!
- axegon_ 6y ago
  The only thing I'm openly disrespecting beyond the unholy mess that is the web of 21-st century, is react and potentially it's designers(I was raised not to be offended but if they are, good riddance). The web is in the worst shape it's ever been. I'm not terrified of code, I've been writing code for over 20 years. I hate antipatterns and spaghetti code, which is what the modern web is, top to bottom, frameworks and libraries included. The main idea behind javascript was to give small and basic interactivity which is entirely self-contained. Is it now? The fact that the modern web relies on tons of known and unknown projects, complex ci/cd pipelines and gigabytes of my hard drive is a clear indication that the js community messed it up. Very similar situation as php, which was intended to be a templating engine (and for that purpose it is brilliant) but just like js, it was turned into Frankenstein's monster(still to a lesser degree). And don't get me started on the endless security issues npm poses. I'm blown away by the fact that those are exploited so little - 15 year old me would have been in heaven if given those opportunities, along with half of my classmates. I seriously wonder what teenagers do these days.

parzivalm 6y ago

> jsx is a retarded idea > My immediate thought was "this is retarded". It's generally frowned upon to use retarded in this manner. Not only is it insulting to people, it brings down the overall tone of your argument.

com2kid 6y ago

> 100ms latency??!?!?!? In my world 100ms are centuries Yup that's crappy. The ease of it happening, the Work At A Startup page used to have this issue (may still, haven't looked lately) shows that it isn't hard to make accidentally happen. As I said, it is a weakness of the system. > sx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html) Have you seen how minimal of an abstraction jsx is? It is a simple rewrite to a JS function that spits out HTML, but JSX is super nice to write and more grep-able than the majority of other templating systems. I have a predisposition to not liking templating systems, but JSX is the best part of React. Notably it doesn't invent it's own control flow language, unlike most competitors in this space. > My immediate thought was "this is retarded". Well the most famous SPA is gmail and it's rather popular, you may have heard of it. It is bloated now, but when it first debuted it was really good. Webmail sucked, then suddenly it didn't. Google maps. Outlook web client. Pandora. Online chat rooms, In browser video chat, (now with cool positional sound!) SPA just means you are just fetching the minimum needed data from the server to fulfill the user's request, instead of refetching the entire DOM. They are inherently an optimization. Non-SPAs can be slow bloated messes as well, e.g. the Expedia site.

rektide 6y ago
appreciated your previous tweet but I am falling asleep here & none of your rebuttals feel like they address the topics raised in a genuine/direct fashion. so many stronger points to make against this

rektide 6y ago

your posting is tribalistic & cruel & demeaning, it attacks and attacks and attacks. this is so hard to grapple with, so so aggressive & merciless & disrespectful. I beg you to reassess yourself. don't make people wade through such mudslinging. please. there's so few better ideas anywhere, & so much heaped up, so much muck you rake us take through. please don't keep doing this horrible negative thing. it's so unjust & so brutally harsh. > jsx is a retarded idea because it adds an abstraction over something brutally simple(html). what programming languages do it better? one of reacts greatest boons, it's greatest innovations, in my mind, is that it gave up the cargo cult special purpose templating languages that we had for almost two decades assumed we needed. it brought the key sensibility of php to javascript: that there was no need, no gain, by treating html as something special. it should be dealt with in the language, in the code. if you have other places that have done a good job of being ripe for building html directly, without intermediation, as you seem to be a proponent of, let me/us know. jax seems intimately closer to me to what you purport to ask for than almost any other language that has come before! your words are a vexing contradiction. > Ok routing library, now make an http request please without involving more dependencies.... please stop being TERRIFIED of code. many routing libraries with dependencies aren tiny. stop panicking that there is code. react router v6 for example is 2.9kb. why so afraid bro? this is actually why the web is good. because there are many many many problems, but they are decoupled and a 2kB library builds a wonderful magical consistent & complete happy environment that proposes a good way of tackling the issues. you have to bring some architecture in but anyone can invent that architecture, the web platform is in opinionated ("principle of least power" x10,000,000), and the solutions tend towards tiny. redux is 2kB with dependencies as well.

rektide 6y ago
stop deleting flagged posts!! we will never ever improve if you keep deleting antithesis!!!!!! bad arguments are necessary!
axegon_ 6y ago
The only thing I'm openly disrespecting beyond the unholy mess that is the web of 21-st century, is react and potentially it's designers(I was raised not to be offended but if they are, good riddance). The web is in the worst shape it's ever been. I'm not terrified of code, I've been writing code for over 20 years. I hate antipatterns and spaghetti code, which is what the modern web is, top to bottom, frameworks and libraries included. The main idea behind javascript was to give small and basic interactivity which is entirely self-contained. Is it now? The fact that the modern web relies on tons of known and unknown projects, complex ci/cd pipelines and gigabytes of my hard drive is a clear indication that the js community messed it up. Very similar situation as php, which was intended to be a templating engine (and for that purpose it is brilliant) but just like js, it was turned into Frankenstein's monster(still to a lesser degree). And don't get me started on the endless security issues npm poses. I'm blown away by the fact that those are exploited so little - 15 year old me would have been in heaven if given those opportunities, along with half of my classmates. I seriously wonder what teenagers do these days.