8 ms·

Beware that some of these are US-centric (or I simply don’t get them) like “don’t talk to cops”. Why not? Mine would be “talk to cops whenever you have a chance

Beware that some of these are US-centric (or I simply don’t get them) like “don’t talk to cops”. Why not? Mine would be “talk to cops whenever you have a chance. They’re nice”.

seveibar 6y ago
You can easily implicate yourself at the scene of the crime by speaking to an officer, but in the U.S. you have the "right to remain silent". The article is generally referring to cases where you are guilty of something or could be guilty of something.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Was that the section title or something? “Things to remember when committing crimes?”
- Jarwain 6y ago
  Expanding on "could be guilty" meaning not just "I might be guilty" but also "I might be perceived as being guilty"
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  It's not about being guilty or not being guilty. For worse, the police in the US have become (or are perceived to be) generally antagonistic towards the communities they police. It's not a universal truth, but it is a common truth. Just like you wouldn't volunteer everything to a rival in the office, you don't volunteer everything to someone who has the authority to arrest or fine you. Especially when they know all the rules and you know a handful.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Exactly. US centric. If you trust that the policeman is a well trained professional there to serve you and with only your best interest in mind, why would you be scared to talk to them? To put it another way: if a policeman isn’t the best (safest, most informed, whatever...) person to talk to among hundreds of strangers you could talk to, isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely?
    - redleggedfrog 6y ago
      My experience, in being in a fair number of non-US non-European countries, is that cops can vary considerably, and many of them are worse than US cops in many ways. "...isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely?" Sad, but true, in a lot of cases. Hence the suggestion not to talk to them.
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      > isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely? Yes, yes it is. And that's the current state of policing in the US. With the irony of police committing acts of brutality against people protesting police brutality, and the officers and their enablers being too ignorant or too hateful to recognize the stupidity of the action and how 2020 has set them back decades in getting people to trust them.
      - HexagonalKitten 6y ago
        Many conservatives (that's how I'm labelled on here, so...) do not support the police as is. I've specifically witnessed more than one instance of absolutely treasonous behavior by police - threatening to hurt people and make up charges. It's counterproductive to think that only 'the left' is against bad police - nobody wants to pay people to ruin the system. However, those people probably don't think that the police "committed acts of brutality against protestors", they likely see the videos of BLM peacefully protesting and police standing by, and Antifa committing arson and attacking police and police fighting back. (Portland, Chicago, Kenosha) And they think that fighting and arresting rioters is exactly what they pay police for. > their enablers being too ignorant or too hateful to recognize the stupidity of the action and how 2020 has set them back decades in getting people to trust them. You were talking about BLM here? Because "Breona" is just as fake as Jussie Smollet's story, and Jacob Blake would have been shot if he was white, etc. Watch the videos of woke white people in Portland shouting racist slurs at black cops to show how much they care about black people in general.
        Jtsummers 6y ago
        Perhaps meditate on #48 from the linked article about keeping your identity small. You may find that you're less likely to assume that a comment that makes no mention of left/right or BLM is an attack on you personally so that you don't feel a need to defend yourself from an imagined attack.
- phist_mcgee 6y ago
  I don't think so, there is no context of that in the article. This perpetuates the mantra that cops are an evil force out to get you. In my country, police are quite respected, and the ability to go over to a police officer and ask for help means that a more trusting relationship is built. How can the US ever hope to achieve police reform with this kind of antagonistic attitude! Maybe the line instead should be, if you believe you are being interrogated by the police, do not speak until you have an attorney present? Different entirely.
  - HexagonalKitten 6y ago
    Nuance is sort of counterproductive here because most people don't recognize how many things could trigger an interrogation. Any little personality quirk, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and the officer is suddenly taking note of every word you say. Watch the video about this and how the law professor says that your casual honest comment to a cop might be taken to be a lie based on nothing. Not just wrong, or potentially incriminating, but a lie, and because of that they can and will start to try to fit the evidence to you. > This perpetuates the mantra that cops are an evil force out to get you. That's not a requirement for this rule to be useful, but I'll act carefully to protect myself rather than to test that theory in either case.
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  It refers to cases where you aren't guilty of anything and don't do anything wrong. USA has felony laws that make word itself a crime.
ska 6y ago
I think you don't get that one, probably because of the framing. I definitely don't think "don't talk to cops" is nuanced enough on it's own, but the perhaps US-centric part of it isn't the statement itself, but the context people will understand around it. The core idea is that there are institutions in society (police being one of them) whose goals and incentives are contrary to your best interests. It doesn't matter that the people who work for them are "nice" or not, the act of performing their job can be very detrimental to you even if nobody involved actively wishes it. This observation is true.
- lowpro 6y ago
  I think the US part of this is that it's not some theoretical "don't talk to people who have interests that don't align with you", it's that actually talking to the cops in the US can never help you, only hurt you. If you incriminate yourself or lie to them that can and will be used against you, but if you make a good argument or have a good reason that will not be used in your defense. By design, "anything you say can and will be used against you" which is a one way street. *Note: have a lawyer in the family
ericsoderstrom 6y ago
Yeah, that one was weird. If you follow the link it leads to this [0] lecture about why you should exercise your 5th amendment right to remain silent if being interrogated by authorities. Which seems like more sensible advice than "DON'T TALK TO COPS", though still out of place on a list of general everyday life tips [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
- prutschman 6y ago
  To anyone who hasn't seen this yet, it's worth a watch. Half of it is a lawyer talking about why you invoke the 5th even if you don't think you're a suspect. The other half is a response by a police officer whose opening statement was "Everything [the lawyer said] is true. Ok? And it was right, and it was correct."
ergocoder 6y ago
Cooking is also western specific. Because eating out in a western country costs arm and legs. Back, in my developing country, I ate out every meal every day because it costs like 1 USD a dish.
- spurgu 6y ago
  Food banks are becoming increasingly more popular in the western countries... :P
lawtalkinghuman 6y ago
"DO NOT TALK TO COPS" is very much US specific advice. There are some countries like the UK where not talking to the cops can potentially land you in trouble too. (In England and Wales, juries are permitted to draw adverse inferences from a defendant not raising information with the police that they later rely on at trial.) If you are arrested, exercise your right to counsel. This is guaranteed in both the US, the UK and most of Europe (under the European Convention of Human Rights), as well as lots of countries elsewhere. Yes, it might mean you have to wait an hour or so for the lawyer to get there. Yes, the police will try to convince you that only guilty people need lawyers (not true) or that it'll make things worse for you (also not true). The counterpoint to this is: if the cops are following procedures correctly and have legitimately collected evidence, they have nothing to fear from you exercising your right to free and independent legal advice.

Beware that some of these are US-centric (or I simply don’t get them) like “don’t talk to cops”. Why not? Mine would be “talk to cops whenever you have a chance. They’re nice”.

seveibar 6y ago

You can easily implicate yourself at the scene of the crime by speaking to an officer, but in the U.S. you have the "right to remain silent". The article is generally referring to cases where you are guilty of something or could be guilty of something.

alkonaut 6y ago
Was that the section title or something? “Things to remember when committing crimes?”
Jarwain 6y ago
Expanding on "could be guilty" meaning not just "I might be guilty" but also "I might be perceived as being guilty"
Jtsummers 6y ago
It's not about being guilty or not being guilty. For worse, the police in the US have become (or are perceived to be) generally antagonistic towards the communities they police. It's not a universal truth, but it is a common truth. Just like you wouldn't volunteer everything to a rival in the office, you don't volunteer everything to someone who has the authority to arrest or fine you. Especially when they know all the rules and you know a handful.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Exactly. US centric. If you trust that the policeman is a well trained professional there to serve you and with only your best interest in mind, why would you be scared to talk to them? To put it another way: if a policeman isn’t the best (safest, most informed, whatever...) person to talk to among hundreds of strangers you could talk to, isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely?
  - redleggedfrog 6y ago
    My experience, in being in a fair number of non-US non-European countries, is that cops can vary considerably, and many of them are worse than US cops in many ways. "...isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely?" Sad, but true, in a lot of cases. Hence the suggestion not to talk to them.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    > isn’t that a sign that the police force in question has failed completely? Yes, yes it is. And that's the current state of policing in the US. With the irony of police committing acts of brutality against people protesting police brutality, and the officers and their enablers being too ignorant or too hateful to recognize the stupidity of the action and how 2020 has set them back decades in getting people to trust them.
    - HexagonalKitten 6y ago
      Many conservatives (that's how I'm labelled on here, so...) do not support the police as is. I've specifically witnessed more than one instance of absolutely treasonous behavior by police - threatening to hurt people and make up charges. It's counterproductive to think that only 'the left' is against bad police - nobody wants to pay people to ruin the system. However, those people probably don't think that the police "committed acts of brutality against protestors", they likely see the videos of BLM peacefully protesting and police standing by, and Antifa committing arson and attacking police and police fighting back. (Portland, Chicago, Kenosha) And they think that fighting and arresting rioters is exactly what they pay police for. > their enablers being too ignorant or too hateful to recognize the stupidity of the action and how 2020 has set them back decades in getting people to trust them. You were talking about BLM here? Because "Breona" is just as fake as Jussie Smollet's story, and Jacob Blake would have been shot if he was white, etc. Watch the videos of woke white people in Portland shouting racist slurs at black cops to show how much they care about black people in general.
      - Jtsummers 6y ago
        Perhaps meditate on #48 from the linked article about keeping your identity small. You may find that you're less likely to assume that a comment that makes no mention of left/right or BLM is an attack on you personally so that you don't feel a need to defend yourself from an imagined attack.
phist_mcgee 6y ago
I don't think so, there is no context of that in the article. This perpetuates the mantra that cops are an evil force out to get you. In my country, police are quite respected, and the ability to go over to a police officer and ask for help means that a more trusting relationship is built. How can the US ever hope to achieve police reform with this kind of antagonistic attitude! Maybe the line instead should be, if you believe you are being interrogated by the police, do not speak until you have an attorney present? Different entirely.
- HexagonalKitten 6y ago
  Nuance is sort of counterproductive here because most people don't recognize how many things could trigger an interrogation. Any little personality quirk, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and the officer is suddenly taking note of every word you say. Watch the video about this and how the law professor says that your casual honest comment to a cop might be taken to be a lie based on nothing. Not just wrong, or potentially incriminating, but a lie, and because of that they can and will start to try to fit the evidence to you. > This perpetuates the mantra that cops are an evil force out to get you. That's not a requirement for this rule to be useful, but I'll act carefully to protect myself rather than to test that theory in either case.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
It refers to cases where you aren't guilty of anything and don't do anything wrong. USA has felony laws that make word itself a crime.

ska 6y ago

I think you don't get that one, probably because of the framing. I definitely don't think "don't talk to cops" is nuanced enough on it's own, but the perhaps US-centric part of it isn't the statement itself, but the context people will understand around it. The core idea is that there are institutions in society (police being one of them) whose goals and incentives are contrary to your best interests. It doesn't matter that the people who work for them are "nice" or not, the act of performing their job can be very detrimental to you even if nobody involved actively wishes it. This observation is true.

lowpro 6y ago
I think the US part of this is that it's not some theoretical "don't talk to people who have interests that don't align with you", it's that actually talking to the cops in the US can never help you, only hurt you. If you incriminate yourself or lie to them that can and will be used against you, but if you make a good argument or have a good reason that will not be used in your defense. By design, "anything you say can and will be used against you" which is a one way street. *Note: have a lawyer in the family

ericsoderstrom 6y ago

Yeah, that one was weird. If you follow the link it leads to this [0] lecture about why you should exercise your 5th amendment right to remain silent if being interrogated by authorities. Which seems like more sensible advice than "DON'T TALK TO COPS", though still out of place on a list of general everyday life tips [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

prutschman 6y ago
To anyone who hasn't seen this yet, it's worth a watch. Half of it is a lawyer talking about why you invoke the 5th even if you don't think you're a suspect. The other half is a response by a police officer whose opening statement was "Everything [the lawyer said] is true. Ok? And it was right, and it was correct."

ergocoder 6y ago

Cooking is also western specific. Because eating out in a western country costs arm and legs. Back, in my developing country, I ate out every meal every day because it costs like 1 USD a dish.

spurgu 6y ago
Food banks are becoming increasingly more popular in the western countries... :P

lawtalkinghuman 6y ago

"DO NOT TALK TO COPS" is very much US specific advice. There are some countries like the UK where not talking to the cops can potentially land you in trouble too. (In England and Wales, juries are permitted to draw adverse inferences from a defendant not raising information with the police that they later rely on at trial.) If you are arrested, exercise your right to counsel. This is guaranteed in both the US, the UK and most of Europe (under the European Convention of Human Rights), as well as lots of countries elsewhere. Yes, it might mean you have to wait an hour or so for the lawyer to get there. Yes, the police will try to convince you that only guilty people need lawyers (not true) or that it'll make things worse for you (also not true). The counterpoint to this is: if the cops are following procedures correctly and have legitimately collected evidence, they have nothing to fear from you exercising your right to free and independent legal advice.