3 ms·

You are supposed to assume good faith about other posters though. And philosophy is (as far as I know) yet another male-dominated major so I don't get what you

You are supposed to assume good faith about other posters though. And philosophy is (as far as I know) yet another male-dominated major so I don't get what you mean. Personally I think the flagged poster was just ranting about technophobia among machine learning bias researchers.

daniel957 6y ago
I’ve read enough of HN comments over the years and been in the industry even longer to know not to assume good faith. Sorry. Like I said, someone else flagged the comment, not me. As a simple example when Kobe Bryant died there were numerous comments on the post saying “Why is this here? This shouldn’t be on Hacker News.” (Even though he was an angel investor). Yet when some random (to me) soccer player died a couple of weeks ago, I didn’t see a single “This doesn’t belong on Hacker News” comment. I looked for them. I also looked up the soccer player to find anything he did remotely related to HN. There was none. It’s ok to accept that racist and sexist people exist, even on sites like Hacker News. After all, this is just Reddit, right? Maybe his comment was just so wacky that it made me think this. Is there an article or something that references researchers thinking if statements are racist? Is this like an in-joke at a certain company? I just don’t get it. What I do get is that lots of people will go out of their way to defend the writer of a _flagged_ comment.
- unishark 6y ago
  I'm referring to the posting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
  - daniel957 6y ago
    I knew what you were referring to. I simply don’t agree. Just like when I _know_ someone didn’t read the article, I will call them out on it. It really is ok. To be honest, I find it sort of lame whenever someone says “The guidelines say you’re not supposed to do that.” This isn’t elementary school. I think these sort of rules actually do a disservice to intellectual dialogue and aren’t working as intended. Why should I pretend that someone said something that they didn’t? Why should I pretend that someone read the article when it’s easily provable that they didn’t? Again, I didn’t flag the comment. It’s not just me who refused to give OP the benefit of the doubt. Maybe our reaction _is_ the strongest plausible interpretation. For example, I understand what you said about philosophy being a male-dominated field. But the article referenced _2_ female researchers by name. This is why there are other comments on this post complaining about the researchers being _whiny_. For example, Timnit Gebru, who does a lot of work in Ethical AI related to sexism and racism, was mentioned briefly. This is why some guy with the username “koreanguy” called Timnit racist and basically said he hates her guts. This is why OP ruslanbogan made some very wacky comment about if statements and racism. He mentioned race first, not me. (He also hasn’t elaborated fully on what he meant, but still has time to downvote me for some reason. He can easily say “No, I actually meant this. My bad.” It’s so simple, really.) Earlier, you mentioned technophobia. Take a moment and think about what are some of the biggest fears currently being researched related to Ethical AI. You guessed it: are machine learning algorithms doing more harm than good when it comes to the intersection of race and gender. ruslanbogan’s comment was flagged for a reason. When people make weird/wacky jokes about racism, it usually means that they’re racist. It’s a shame that you’re assuming good faith in him but not me. Here are a few links related to facial recognition: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/19/federal-study-confirms-racial-bias-many-facial-recognition-systems-casts-doubt-their-expanding-use/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technolo... https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/24/in-facial-recognition-challenge-top-ranking-algorithms-show-bias-against-black-women/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/24/in-f... (And no, I’m not one of those users that hates amp pages. I’m glad there’s not a rule banning them :D) ((Jesus, I went from 26 points down to 15. Am I wrong about something? Or are there just more sexist/racist guys on HN than you thought unishark?))
    - ruslanbogan 6y ago
      I only have 9 karma so it's not me downvoting you
      - daniel957 6y ago
        I’m down to 9 also. It must have been the other sexist and racist people that downvoted my reply to “koreanguy”. His comments about Timnit were violently aggressive and disgusting. He doesn’t even know Timnit yet has so much hatred for her that he basically wants to kill her? She wrote a few tweets. She’s not Hitler. Again, someone _else_ flagged his comment as they rightfully should have. Yet I get downvoted for calling out bad behavior. I hate that I have to work with people like you everyday. HN is almost as bad as the Blind app. BTW you still didn’t explain yourself.
        ruslanbogan 6y ago
        It would be impossible for me to explain things you've made up in your head
        daniel957 6y ago
        I’m just asking you to explain what you originally said. I’m not asking you to explain my interpretation of what you said, obviously. What were you referring to or what did you mean when you mentioned if statements and racists?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

daniel957 6y ago

I’ve read enough of HN comments over the years and been in the industry even longer to know not to assume good faith. Sorry. Like I said, someone else flagged the comment, not me. As a simple example when Kobe Bryant died there were numerous comments on the post saying “Why is this here? This shouldn’t be on Hacker News.” (Even though he was an angel investor). Yet when some random (to me) soccer player died a couple of weeks ago, I didn’t see a single “This doesn’t belong on Hacker News” comment. I looked for them. I also looked up the soccer player to find anything he did remotely related to HN. There was none. It’s ok to accept that racist and sexist people exist, even on sites like Hacker News. After all, this is just Reddit, right? Maybe his comment was just so wacky that it made me think this. Is there an article or something that references researchers thinking if statements are racist? Is this like an in-joke at a certain company? I just don’t get it. What I do get is that lots of people will go out of their way to defend the writer of a _flagged_ comment.

unishark 6y ago
I'm referring to the posting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
- daniel957 6y ago
  I knew what you were referring to. I simply don’t agree. Just like when I _know_ someone didn’t read the article, I will call them out on it. It really is ok. To be honest, I find it sort of lame whenever someone says “The guidelines say you’re not supposed to do that.” This isn’t elementary school. I think these sort of rules actually do a disservice to intellectual dialogue and aren’t working as intended. Why should I pretend that someone said something that they didn’t? Why should I pretend that someone read the article when it’s easily provable that they didn’t? Again, I didn’t flag the comment. It’s not just me who refused to give OP the benefit of the doubt. Maybe our reaction _is_ the strongest plausible interpretation. For example, I understand what you said about philosophy being a male-dominated field. But the article referenced _2_ female researchers by name. This is why there are other comments on this post complaining about the researchers being _whiny_. For example, Timnit Gebru, who does a lot of work in Ethical AI related to sexism and racism, was mentioned briefly. This is why some guy with the username “koreanguy” called Timnit racist and basically said he hates her guts. This is why OP ruslanbogan made some very wacky comment about if statements and racism. He mentioned race first, not me. (He also hasn’t elaborated fully on what he meant, but still has time to downvote me for some reason. He can easily say “No, I actually meant this. My bad.” It’s so simple, really.) Earlier, you mentioned technophobia. Take a moment and think about what are some of the biggest fears currently being researched related to Ethical AI. You guessed it: are machine learning algorithms doing more harm than good when it comes to the intersection of race and gender. ruslanbogan’s comment was flagged for a reason. When people make weird/wacky jokes about racism, it usually means that they’re racist. It’s a shame that you’re assuming good faith in him but not me. Here are a few links related to facial recognition: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/19/federal-study-confirms-racial-bias-many-facial-recognition-systems-casts-doubt-their-expanding-use/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/technolo... https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/24/in-facial-recognition-challenge-top-ranking-algorithms-show-bias-against-black-women/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/24/in-f... (And no, I’m not one of those users that hates amp pages. I’m glad there’s not a rule banning them :D) ((Jesus, I went from 26 points down to 15. Am I wrong about something? Or are there just more sexist/racist guys on HN than you thought unishark?))
  - ruslanbogan 6y ago
    I only have 9 karma so it's not me downvoting you
    - daniel957 6y ago
      I’m down to 9 also. It must have been the other sexist and racist people that downvoted my reply to “koreanguy”. His comments about Timnit were violently aggressive and disgusting. He doesn’t even know Timnit yet has so much hatred for her that he basically wants to kill her? She wrote a few tweets. She’s not Hitler. Again, someone _else_ flagged his comment as they rightfully should have. Yet I get downvoted for calling out bad behavior. I hate that I have to work with people like you everyday. HN is almost as bad as the Blind app. BTW you still didn’t explain yourself.
      - ruslanbogan 6y ago
        It would be impossible for me to explain things you've made up in your head
        daniel957 6y ago
        I’m just asking you to explain what you originally said. I’m not asking you to explain my interpretation of what you said, obviously. What were you referring to or what did you mean when you mentioned if statements and racists?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]