21 ms·

The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

285 points by 0-_-0 6y ago

neogodless 6y ago
For those like me wondering more about the components, here's a previous article with the full list (of the initial build). https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html Here's the motherboard mentioned in the current article: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3... > 1 Thunderbolt™ 3 Type-C
dijit 6y ago
Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell. There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning. It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in. Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics. Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  That's a bummer to hear; I have the WD15 dock through work and it's been excellent; I have a bunch of complaints about the XPS itself (power management, for example), but that dock has been great.
  - ianai 6y ago
    For the prices, these docks have no excuse for bad behavior.
    - gumby 6y ago
      I dunno, TB is basically a mass of high frequency analog madness with long cables thrown into the mix. I, kind of astonished that it works at all, at any price.
  - mmcnl 6y ago
    I also have a WD15 and it works very well. Connecting everything with one cable is a very nice feature. It's a USB-C dock though, and not Thunderbolt.
  - alcidesfonseca 6y ago
    I have the WD15 connected to a 2016 MacBook Pro and it is incredibly unreliable. USB devices stop working randomly (mouse+keyboard), ethernet comes and goes as it pleases and the display output works for one month before stops working all together. The only thing that works reliably is power supply.
- test1235 6y ago
  I can echo this - our company runs off dell machines and our laptops came with these docks. Despite (in happier times) having to leave my desk frequently for meetings, with my laptop, I'd rather faff about with plugging and unplugging multiple cables than have to deal with the frustration of peripherals randomly losing connection while you're in the middle of working.
- MrMid 6y ago
  I have the WD19TB and it is great. I've never had problems with it, though Dell updates its firmware frequently, so it seems they are still tuning it.
  - bionade24 6y ago
    I do have it, too and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
- arnmac 6y ago
  I had tons of problems with my TB16 and one prior Dell dock but the WD19 has been working flawlessly all year. I have used it with my XPS 7550 and 7590 and had no problems. I also have had good experience using it with a MacBook Pro 15.
- v4nd0ck 6y ago
  I started with the TB16 but after finding all these things out I actually switched to the TB15 and had much more success with that.
- gspr 6y ago
  Hold on! Is this why ethernet is exhibiting intermittent and impossible to diagnose behavior for me at work, and only for me?! Do you have some more information?
  - MichaelZuo 6y ago
    What is typically called ‘ethernet’ is actually a family of interrelated protocols. Correct implementations are costly since they require quality components and fine-tuning between hardware, firmware, and software levels. Most consumer products just use generic components that some factory negotiators were willing to offload for cheap. The high end products with megabucks contracts are the ones capable of hitting guaranteed reliability targets. Apple, like for most other components, is the only big consumer brand that consistently uses something better than whatever was cheapest in Shenzhen. Even business oriented brands, like Western Digital, Brother, etc., have been cutting costs in these areas recently for their cheapest lines. Boutique smaller brands like CalDigit, Lacie, etc., who justify their premium pricing with quality, also usually puts effort into doing it correctly.
- lloeki 6y ago
  > the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frame I have a USB-C Novoo thingy (PD passthrough, HDMI, 3x USB-A, Ethernet) that might do something like that. If I plug Ethernet into my home router it ends up killing all other ethernet links on this router in about two minutes. I unplug it and things come back to life in under a second. The thing also has a habit to produce EM interference that makes WiFi useless. Would you believe, running a ping and wrapping the device's cord in tin foil back and forth and you can see the packet stop dropping and start again. Crazy.
  - cat199 6y ago
    iogear usb-C -> 3x USB+ethernet - had the same EM interference with a MacBookPro, ended up wrapping the cable in an antistatic bag fragment, and good to go..
- tda 6y ago
  Recently wasted a morning at the office swapping all variants of Dell thunderbolt and USB-c docks, kept getting weird USB errors. Most frustrating was I couldn't reproduce the error at the helpdesk with same dock. The weirdest thing was usb peripherals were working fine, but somehow Windows kept giving me a non suppressable popup every minute ad infinitum. I don't see the point of docking stations anymore now you can get 49" screens with USB-c connectors. No reason to put a docking station in between or dual screen setups anymore
- GordonS 6y ago
  Also avoid the HP Thunderbolt Dock - was a steaming pile that is! On 2 identical laptops (fresh builds), 1 of them BSODs, the other works sometimes, but BSODs at random when resuming from sleep or plugging in devices. They've releases various versions of the firmware, along with various versions of various drivers that need to be installed on the laptop. Only some random variations of these work, and only on some devices, and only some of the time. Total garbage.
- other_herbert 6y ago
  I have this dock.. I basically just use it for the power and DisplayPort to a 4k60 display... since USB is awful on it I have a USB hub I plug in to the notebook also... So I guess calling that thing a “dock” is generous
- 0xTJ 6y ago
  I was really impressed with the Dell WD19TB dock I was issued from work for COVID. I had never used a dock before, but having all my external displays (I used 2 DP, but I think it could handle 3 at once if using HDMI too), Ethernet, all the USB, and charging all through one port was amazing.
- bionade24 6y ago
  I have the WD19 and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
  - bionade24 6y ago
    If you want to answer they have to because they sell Linux preinstalled: Their Ubuntu is garbage. If you setup Archlinux on your own, some features which haven't worked before will work, for example backlight oder hw acceleration. Still better than Lenovo telling it's a feature to not setup proprietairy Linux drivers on devices who need them.
    - eulers_secret 6y ago
      I have a 9310, and the stock Ubuntu was OK. The biggest issue is thermald was older and limited the frequency boosting (so lower perf). I run 20.10 now with thermald master and kernel 5.10.1 (includes patches which enable pc10 sleep states and 400mhz cpu idle speed). Now it boosts and idles appropriately. What’s “backlight oder hw acceleration” are you referring to refresh rate or something like PSR? I want to know if it’s something I need to check on my 9310...
      - pizza234 6y ago
        "oder" is "or" in German, so I think they meant "backlight or hw acceleration". I own a more recent Dell XPS 13, and the keyboard backlight support is indeed buggy - it needs a configuration patch to prevent it from turning on on logon. Not sure what's exactly the hw acceleration. If they refer to the Intel integrated GPUs, the configuration is pretty much standard; up to 18.04 the only thing I needed to configure was the VSync (this was the same also for other laptops), but with 20.04, I didn't need anymore.
- OakNinja 6y ago
  Tried loads of TB docks (as well as USB3 ones) and gave up. They all have annoying quirks. I finally settled with a Razer Core Chroma, with Ethernet and USB. My MBP16 is finally silent with external displays, and the offloading really helps during video calls.
  - neodymiumphish 6y ago
    I had the original Razer core right when it launched. Razer did an excellent job with their eGPU TB3 enclosures. In my case, a firmware update made the USB ports practically unusable, and I eventually got Razer to accept it as a return, but I'm eventually going to go with them and their future iterations of the Core once I get a laptop that supports TB3/4.
- NwtnsMthd 6y ago
  I can second this! The TB16 works alright after updating it to the newest firmware, but still has it's quirks. For example, my mouse lags / cuts out briefly, now and then (I plug it in direct). The TB19 I use when working from home appears to have little to no issues (none that I can think of right now).
- Bud 6y ago
  I support a LOT of Thunderbolt docks for clients in my IT work and have also had experience with a lot of them personally. My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    issue with caldigit is that it only has one dp out, wd19 has 2, and an hdmi. my optimal dock would have/support: 3 video out (dp, hdmi, etc) 5+ usb-a (2.0 is fine) 2+ usb-c (3.2 preferred) gigEth
    - swiftcoder 6y ago
      The CalDigit only has one dedicated DisplayPort, but you can also plug a USB-C to DisplayPort cable into the outgoing ThunderBolt port - I had dual 4k60 monitors running for a while that way.
      - gumby 6y ago
        Daisy chain is supposed to work for two monitors, but I don’t know if it ever has in the wild. I believe it’s mandatory for TB4
        swiftcoder 6y ago
        DisplayPort daisy chain is specifically unsupported by Mac OS since forever. If you dual-boot an Intel Mac to Windows (via BootCamp) it'll daisy chain just fine, so the hardware supports it, but booted to Mac it'll just ignore the second monitor in the chain. If you are lucky enough to own a Thunderbolt (note: not displayport) monitor, that can chain to a displayport monitor. But thunderbolt monitors are rare as all get out these days.
        Bud 6y ago
        It's only on PCs that it doesn't work properly, because PC makers suck and never bothered to be honest about implementing Thunderbolt 3 properly. They didn't even tell the truth about it. That's why we have this utter silliness called "Thunderbolt 4". All Thunderbolt 4 is, is Thunderbolt 3, but actually implemented properly, with no wiggle room for chintzy PC makers to weasel out.
- vxNsr 6y ago
  Yup, we had a good venting session at our Dell rep about this issue last year. They were very aware of the issues, very apologetic and suggested we try some sorta displaylink garbage in the meantime. We did, and then as soon as the WD19 came out we tested that, and it's been night and day. They still require custom drivers but 99% of issues disappeared. I had one issue with a laptop that likely had a faulty tb module and was failing back to usb 3.1 but no other complaints from anyone. Well aside from the lack of usb ports on the thing... the Eport had like 8 usbs, the wd16 had 5 and now we're down to 3 on the wd19, that'd be fine if the laptops didn't keep dropping usb-a's also, most of the 7000 line only has 2 now. I refuse to get a usb dock to plug into the wd19 just for usb, that's insane and I'm not a crazy person.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  I wish Microsoft would open-source their magnetic Surface Connector. It Just Works with a dock, period. They made an USB-C adapter if you want to try out the buggy Thunderbolt/USB-C ecosystem.
- glangdale 6y ago
  I've used the WD19. I haven't experimented with Linux, but it's a pretty screwy device. A firmware update meant that it stopped playing "which device is going to work today" lucky dip, but it is always a festival of that Windows "hey, something interesting happened at a hardware level" noise as it takes 10 seconds and 3-4 redraws of the whole screen to finally figure out where all the displays are. It's workable on PC and Mac, but I don't love it.
- dghughes 6y ago
  I've had two jobs both government (not US) those WDx docks are terrible. The connector is a two inch lever just waiting for something to break it off.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Personally I disagree, I love my WD19TB. It's hooked up to all my peripherals and monitor, and until a proper TB3 KVM comes into existence, I plug it into my laptop or desktop as needed. Nice to be able to swap a single plug and get full speed everything.
    - dghughes 6y ago
      I'm referring to the sheer volume of calls I got to replace or update or reset the docks. It was probably in the top three of calls I would get maybe even #1.
treve 6y ago
I just also started looking into Thunderbolt 3 docks after only getting 4k30hz. $400+ CAD is so much though! Im curious if anyone here has recommendations
- filleokus 6y ago
  I've looked at the Dell WD19TB, after using the previous gen Dell one from work. But I don't know about 4k support, since I only use 2560x1440 screens, which seems to work fine. EDIT: Ah.. I saw now it was well above 400 CAD from Dell Canada
- dschuler 6y ago
  It depends on the configuration you're interested in, but there are some _relatively_ inexpensive ones from Monoprice [0]. I've tested this one with dual 4k monitors @ 60Hz, and USB 3. It works reliably, which is the most important aspect for me. No laptop charging and fixed TB cable however. [0] https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31262 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31262
  - horsawlarway 6y ago
    Note that this working will depend heavily on what usb-3 peripherals you're plugging in, and the exact resolution of your 4k monitors. a display at 3840x2160@60hz will eat up about 19.8gbps. Two of them together will use 39.6gpbs. Thunderbolt 3 only supports 40gbps. So if you have peripherals that need anything more than basic mouse/keyboard (in my case, a decent webcam and a usb to ethernet adapter) this setup will fail.
    - dschuler 6y ago
      I'm no video expert, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you can do 3840x2160@60Hz video with 24bit/pixel with under 14.4Gbps, which is the HDMI 2.0 limit [0]. According to this [1], that signal would require 12.54Gbps, so with a link budget of 34.56Gbps - 2*12.65Gbps, you'd have about 9.48Gbps left over for USB and ethernet (which is on the PCI bus for this particular hub). I suppose these numbers include coding overhead for the physical link, but I can't say for sure. If you wanted more than 60Hz or more than 24bit/pixel, you'd definitely run out of bandwidth with two monitors and USB/ethernet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0 [1] https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&H=3440&V=1440&F=120&calculations=show&formulas=show https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cabl...
protoman3000 6y ago
Bought a used HP Elite Thunderbolt 3 Dock for ~50€ off eBay and never regretted it. Watch out to get the correct cables and chargers though!
tmakks 6y ago
Which CPU did he use? And why is there a Macbook on all drawings? How is it related to the actual silent PC?
- rzzzt 6y ago
  Fabien is trying to share the 4K display between the silent PC and the Macbook, but it is not possible through a single USB 3 hub due to bandwidth limitations. The second image suggests that a separate display cable from each device fixes the issue, and the rest of the peripherals can still be shared through the hub. ...I should probably also read through the entire article, it does not end here :)
- dijit 6y ago
  Ryzen 5 2600 is the cpu listed on the original spec sheet. I don’t think it supports thunderbolt though.
  - Latty 6y ago
    The Thunderbolt in this case is coming from the chipset on the motherboard, not the CPU. He lists the motherboard as an X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 which supports 2nd gen Ryzen, and which has that support built in.
    - rashkov 6y ago
      Does this explain the author’s surprise that apple’s fanless MacBooks can handle thunderbolt 3 without getting hot? If they’re doing it on cpu then I suppose that could bring about a lot of cpu i/o efficiency.
      - mastax 6y ago
        The X570 chipset is strange. It's just a Zen 2 IO die backported to GlobalFoundries 14nm. Presumably they were able to remove the unnecessary parts (memory controller) while backporting, but maybe they're reusing excess chips if they chose late in the process to move the IO die to 12nm. I'd guess there's some inefficiency from being a clever hack and not exactly designed for purpose. Additionally, the X570 chipset supports a lot of peripherals: - 16x PCIe 4.0 lanes + 4x lanes to the CPU - 12 SATA 3 ports (some PHYs are shared with PCIe lanes so you can't have all of both) - 8 USB 3.0 10Gbps (I'm not going to google the "official" nomenclature, ugh) - 4 USB 2.0 - Other things like SuperIO and SMBus which don't use much power Far more peripherals than M1. (Probably, it seems there's still no detailed specs about the thing anywhere). Then there's the process advantage, 14nm GF to 5nm TSMC is a huge difference for all the logic involved. The advantage is dampened somewhat for IO because a significant portion of the power is used to drive the signals out of the chip, which is not affected by process changes. Apple's PCIe 4.0 PHYs may be more efficient considering X570 is a first generation PCIe 4.0 design. Also, the power consumption of X570 is not that bad for what it is, 7-10W [0]. AMD must be a stickler about the 15W TDP because the fan seems unnecessary. This article is basically the worst case scenario: small heatsink on a cramped ITX motherboard in a passive case with no airflow. Maybe BCLK overclocking would run the fan? Or a dust clogged no-airflow case in a hot climate running all the peripherals at full bore? [0]: https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2019/7/b3affde4-8a75-4475-b186-fbc3bbeaca65.jpg https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2019/7/b3affde4-8a75-4475-b...
bootlooped 6y ago
There's something I don't understand: does switching between laptop and pc with that hub require unplugging one usb c cable from the back of the hub and plugging the other one in? I'm very interested in a similar setup. So far I don't think I've figured out an elegant solution. My current solution is to have both devices plugged into the monitor, and use a usb hub to share the peripherals, manually moving the cable to the hub between devices.
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  I had the same problem earlier this year - I settled on a similar approach, but I use a usb switch so I don't have to unplug/replug anything on swap. Here's the exact model I ended up getting (I'm not affiliated in any way) https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Selector-Computers-Peripheral-Switcher/dp/B01N6GD9JO https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Selector-Computers-Peripheral-... Now I can plug my laptop into my dock, and just press a button to switch all my usb devices between machines. It's actually a really nice workflow, nice enough that sometimes I'll leave the desktop up on my second monitor playing music or videos when I'm doing heavy processing on my work laptop, and just occasionally switch my mouse/keyboard between them with a button press.
- xondono 6y ago
  I do something similar, but I got a $20 usb3.1 switch on Amazon and taped that to the back of my monitor. When I want to switch, I just change the input on the monitor and press the button behind it. It’s not the 1-click solution that I wanted, but it’s close enough and cheap. Switching USB ports is cheap, switching video signals isn’t.
  - iamacyborg 6y ago
    You can buy cheap Displayport switches that work just like the usb one you have.
    - xondono 6y ago
      That’s the plan once I upgrade. For now I’m still using my 2015 mbp, so it’s displayport from my desktop and HDMI from the laptop. Finding a cheap switch capable of doing both is not that easy
tomekowal 6y ago
I see standing desk and a monitor arm. My question is: does the arm wobble much when you adjust height? If not: what kind of arm are you using?
- orev 6y ago
  As someone with a similar setup: yes, it can wobble a little; no, it’s not a big deal and the reviewers who make it into such a big issue are just inventing things to complain about.
- smarx007 6y ago
  All arms will wobble a certain amount if you try adjusting the position with one hand. Just use two hands and there will be not much wobbling.
- andjd 6y ago
  I have a similar setup, using an Amazon Basics monitor arm. There's a slight jutter in the monitor when the movement stops and starts, but the monitor always ends up in the same place at the end of the move, and the connections to the desk and the monitor are solid enough that I don't worry about it.
bluedino 6y ago
All the docks seem like they are bad in their own way. Almost every one has a flaw. I can understand why Apple didn't bother making one.
- geertj 6y ago
  I'm having good luck with the CalDigit TS3
  - acjohnson55 6y ago
    +1 to this. It's rock solid.
  - supermatt 6y ago
    if you are in clamshell mode, with display connected through the dock, will the display resume from sleep? I have tried a number of TB3 docks (pretty much all except the caldigit), and they ALL have the problem (on MBP m1 at least) that the display will not wake when in clamshell mode. Display wakes fine when connected directly as USB-3 monitor. Appreciate if you can test this and let me know :D
    - mnutt 6y ago
      Using the Caldigit TB3 with a 2019 16" MBP in clamshell mode with two 4k LG monitors through the dock, I've found it pretty tedious trying to wake the monitors from sleep. Sometimes it'll take 30-45s of the monitors going in and out of power saving mode before it actually wakes up. This does seem to be the MBP's fault, because I can temporarily fix it by resetting the NVRAM. Other than that, overall I've had a really positive experience with the TB3.
      - supermatt 6y ago
        Thanks - I think ill pick one up and see how it fares.
    - selectodude 6y ago
      I have my 2016 15" hooked up to a 4K monitor via Displayport without any issues. Been using this dock + display for a couple years now.
gehwartzen 6y ago
Thunderbolt 3 really is amazing. Im using a OWC Thunderbolt Dock to connect my MacBook to: an eGPU thats driving a 5K monitor, a 1TB TB3 SSD, and 24/96 USB audio to my stereo. All over one cable. BTW if your using TB3 as your main connection to your laptop I highly recommend a magnetic TB3 adapter. This has been working great in my setup for over a year and makes docking/undocking a snap. https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Thunderbolt3-Connector-Transfer-Compatible/dp/B0896QK2J5 https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Thunderbolt3-Connector-Trans...
- rmorey 6y ago
  what egpu do you have?
  - gehwartzen 6y ago
    Right now it's a Radeon Vega 64 in a Sonnet Breakaway Box. My monitor is a HP Z27Q and its being driving over two Diplayport Cables to get 5K resolution.
- tutfbhuf 6y ago
  Is it possible to buy an PCIe to TB3 adapter cable and connect any modern graphics card to a laptop or mini atx board that has TB3?
  - opencl 6y ago
    That's basically what all of those eGPU boxes are. You can buy just the enclosure and pop whatever GPU you want in, provided the enclosure has an adequate power supply.
  - nicolas_t 6y ago
    Yes, it is. There's a few egpu enclosure. Take a look at egpu.info There's a small performance penalty and it's not always perfectly reliable but it works well enough and is very convenient.
  - komali2 6y ago
    As other people mentioned, egpu container. For what it's worth, I didn't find this to be, well, worth it. I got a razer egpu enclosure and while it was certainly very well engineered, it was comically over-engineered. Weighed something crazy even without my gpu in it, I wanna say 10lbs, maybe even 15. Plus, it was huge, as big as an itx case. Then I had to drop 60$ on a long enough thunderbolt Cable to let me have the case under my desk. Then there was all the issues with plugging in a laptop. Windows on a lenovo x1 carbon worked fine, with plug in/out capabilities. Ubuntu 18.04 on same machine wasn't plug and play, but I got it working after about an hour of fiddling. Never got plug in/out working. Plug in worked, but unplug without shutting down lead to a crash. All this and the enclosure was like 300$, and I was bottlenecked by my laptop processor anyway. In the end I think it's just simpler to buy that expensive graphics card you're looking at, then build a simple pc around it, and then make use of some kind of network based workflow for data sharing (git server for your code, networked hard drives for video, photo, music editing etc. Much easier, much more flexible, and imo in the end cheaper.
marinhero 6y ago
This is great! I’ve been eyeing the same motherboard to get a similar setup but I do have a GPU. Wouldn’t that break the setup? I could only connect peripherals to the dock and handle the monitors separately. I believe that would end the one cable dream :(
- rashkov 6y ago
  Not sure if the author uses an internal or a discrete gpu, but this build does mention: “ Another weirdness is the 1 foot DP to DP cable required to connect the GPU DP-output to the Mobo DP-input. This is required to get the video stream on the Thunderbolt port.”
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    Assuming he only replaced the motherboard here, according to the original specs it has a small form factor 1050 ti: https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html
- kraftman 6y ago
  You plug the GPU into the motherboard and it then asses the displayport over the thunderbolt connection.
cbm-vic-20 6y ago
The author includes a diagram that shows his PC and his laptop plugged in via Thunderbolt 3 to the CalDigit TS3+ dock, and no direct connection to the monitor. Looking at the dock's product page[1], I don't see how this can have two hosts connected; did I miss something in this article? [1] https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/ https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/
- least 6y ago
  No, you didn't miss anything. I'm assuming that he just unplugs the cable from one when he wants to use the other. As far as I know there aren't any sort of KVM thunderbolt 3 hubs in existence.
  - FroshKiller 6y ago
    I use that CalDigit dock with my work laptop and personal laptop, and I just swap the cable. Adding a KVM switch just for that use case wouldn't make sense in my opinion.
    - johnwalkr 6y ago
      Good idea actually, I’m using 2 PCs with one monitor over USB-c. The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources. I didn’t even think of swapping the cable!
      - greggyb 6y ago
        > The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources This sounds like a job for Autohotkey or a similar automation tool. It's worth learning something like this on your platform.
        johnwalkr 6y ago
        I can’t change the input from a pc, only using buttons on the monitor itself. Using i2c over display port is possible to change input source but I don’t really have the will to spend time on trying it. Incidentally, I was asked to uninstall autohotkey from my work PC because some corporate spyware detected it as a threat.
nicolas_t 6y ago
I have the same motherboard and the same enclosure. The enclosure is really great, well designed and easy to use. For the heatsink, I actually bent some of the pipes and used the lh6 kit to use two sides of the enclosure for heat dissipation instead of one side only. The thunderbolt port on that mother board works great. I have an egpu that I'm sharing between my laptop and this computer and it works perfectly on windows. I haven't managed yet to configure VFIO so that it works well on a windows VM in linux though.
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  That is a really cool enclosure, I love it. The totally fanless, silent aspect plus the sleek design, just perfect.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jrrrr 6y ago
Looks like that board is the sole option for Thunderbolt && AMD && ITX. Bummer that there are no options with passively-cooled B550 chipsets. I do something similar to the post's two-cable configuration: - Mac to Caldigit TB dock to two displays. - PC to one of the displays - Keyboard and mouse to a USB switch, which connects to the PC and the TB dock It's kind of a pain to manually flip both the USB switch and the monitor's input. This app can theoretically help by programmatically toggling the display's input when particular USB devices are dis/connected: https://github.com/haimgel/display-switch https://github.com/haimgel/display-switch .. but compatibility is spotty, relying on a rarely-used hardware feature in the display that seems to not be reliably implemented ("DDC/CI").
- johnwalkr 6y ago
  Having used only a MacBook for 4 USB-c/thunderbolt ports for several years, and having moved all of my stuff (even my cordless shaver!) to USB-c / thunderbolt, I was really surprised and annoyed when I built an AMD gaming PC and realized I could only get 1 or 2 USB-c ports and almost no options for thunderbolt. It made me realize why most mice, etc are USB-a still.
  - yurishimo 6y ago
    Well up until late last year or so, Thunderbolt was an Intel only thing. They then released it to the USB consortium and USB4 is an extension of Thunderbolt. So this motherboard the OP used is probably one of the first ones with USB4 compat. I expect a lot more AMD mobos to support thunderbolt in the next year. Music producers especially really like the interface for it's low latency and bandwidth, and Ryzen would be an awesome pairing for the resource hungry applications they tend to gravitate towards.
- lgierth 6y ago
  You're obviously correct for ITX, but I was surprised when I found out that (on larger boards) you can simply get a Thunderbolt PCIe card from Asus, Dell, etc. and it will just work. It appears that in many cases, the infamous THB_C header on mainboards doesn't serve any purpose.
rektide 6y ago
it's funny because in the modern era the northridge is now on CPU package and the south bridge/io-hub is not even in the box any more!
otterpro 6y ago
I had to do a double-take on that PC case, as I thought I was seeing a NeXT cube. I'd love to get this on [Streacom DB4 FANLESS CHASSIS - Newegg.com](https://www.newegg.com/silver-streacom-db4-mini-itx-media-center-htpc-case/p/2AM-005T-00009?Item=9SIA5FYB8K6767 https://www.newegg.com/silver-streacom-db4-mini-itx-media-ce...), but it is $389 + $100 shipping!
- sigzero 6y ago
  If I was building one, I would buy it. It is very cool.
xorcist 6y ago
On the topic of silent PCs, I've been very happy with the HD-plex.com H1 chassis. It's about $200 and you have to stick under 65W. It's basically a big heatsink. They have bigger ones as well that can handle GPUs, haven't tested those. Ever since SDDs became available for consumers I wanted a PC without any moving parts or fans. I've had it for over two years now and having a dead silent PC has been just as great as I had imagined.
- nwah1 6y ago
  Have one. It looks very sharp. But, after only two years my rig bit the dust. A particular component must have fried from overheating, but I don't know which yet. Realistically you should be more in the 35W range with this setup. And alas, finding a good 35W Ryzen APU is a challenge. There simply aren't any of a recent generation for sale anywhere.
emilecantin 6y ago
I have the Plugable TBT3-UDZ dock for my MacBook Pro, and I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it. It supports 2 displays, has a bunch of ports, and has its own power supply (i.e. my power brick can stay in my laptop bag). Construction quality is nice as well. Only "problem" I've had with it is finding the correct adapters, as I'm using it with DVI & VGA displays (it needs "active" adapters for this). I have finally achieved the "dream" of only having a single cable to connect / disconnect when I want to bring my laptop with me. Full specs here: https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz#nav-specifications https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz#nav-specifications
yboris 6y ago
My favorite blog on the "silent" / "fanless" topic: https://www.fanlesstech.com/ https://www.fanlesstech.com/
yboris 6y ago
Another way to "silence" a PC is to put it in another room. Mine is across the wall - with just the HDMI and USB cables coming through a small wall hole (PVC pipe to make the edges smooth). I highly recommend it.
- bombcar 6y ago
  Modern cables (if you buy high quality ones) support incredible lengths - this is relatively easy to do in many situations.
  - wan23 6y ago
    Except, of course, for Thunderbolt 3, where to get even reasonable lengths you have to pay $$$. https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/27/21339861/apple-thunderbolt-3-pro-cable-specs-price-available https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/27/21339861/apple-thunderbol...
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      What's the deal with these prices? Is it just because the connector is so compact? A 2-meter QSFP+ 40-gigabit copper cable is only about $25. https://www.fs.com/c/40g-qsfp-dac-1117 https://www.fs.com/c/40g-qsfp-dac-1117
      - wffurr 6y ago
        They are "active" cables and so have microcontrollers in them.
        jeffbee 6y ago
        But isn’t that an indictment of the whole architecture? 40-gig Ethernet reaches these distances with passive cables. Is it that the Ethernet people have moved the costs into the port and their ports cost more, while the thunderbolt ports cost less and the cables cost more?
wheybags 6y ago
The diagram shows he is only plugging in peripherals like keyboard, mouse, webcam. For things like that, USB2 should be fine, and you save a lot of headache. If you have a high performance usb3 storage device connected, you probably don't want it to switch with your KVM anyway.
thusjustin 6y ago
I'm curious about that keyboard setup. To the author- if you see this, can you share some of its details- I've been wanting to put together something similar.
- Cactus2018 6y ago
  Looks like a ErgoDox EZ on a stack of books and an Apple Magic Trackpad 2.
  - fabiensanglard 6y ago
    Specs of the book stack: - Masters of Doom - Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai - Mid Century Modern At Home - Scandinavian Style at Home
ehnto 6y ago
My gaming rig is silent for 95% of operations, and a low hum at full tilt. Massive heatsinks give me the ability to turn off all fans and still stay at safe temps for anything that isn't a taxing game like Red Dead 2. I also 3D printed a new GPU shroud in high temp PLA that allowed me to place some Noctua fans softly mounted on the stock heatsink (which was already massive). The case itself is a Quiet PC case. Rock solid cases if you want one case to last you forever, even if you don't want the quietness they are just very stout. I usually overclock my PC once the parts stop being enough but I love the silence so much that I will probably just buy better parts this time around, rather than require over the top potentially loud cooling.
mastax 6y ago
The tall thin heatsink at the edge of the motherboard is cooling part of the VRM. The VRM or Voltage Regulator Module is responsible for converting the 12V input down to 1.3V or so for the CPU. Under that heatsink there are 2 of the 8 phases for CPU Vcore and 2 phases for Vsoc. It would be pretty safe to remove that heatsink, even in a passive case because: - Vsoc draws very little power, especially with no iGPU. - The VRM is designed to survive providing 200A to a 16 core 3950X, 50A to a 2600 is very easy by comparison. Maybe 6W of heat split among the 8 phases so <2W of heat on these 2 phases. - The MOSFETs will happily run all day at up to 125C. - The MOSFETs are smart power stages which communicate their temperature to the controller, and have many built-in protections, so there's extremely little risk of damage. The controller probably shares load amongst the phases based on temperature but I can't find a datasheet to confirm. Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXwjwxb39EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXwjwxb39EA
- NwtnsMthd 6y ago
  Yup, most MOSFETs will have no trouble running at 125C! The power supplies in some of our products occasionally run at 180C, without heat-sinking. But these aren't designed to last as long as a motherboard VRM. In general cooler is better. At high temps you'll see temperature related aging accelerate (e.g. solder, PCB substrate, electromigration in the parts), but you'd probably be okay. The PC would become obsolete way before the VRM fails. The worst case I can imagine is the MOSFETs and inductors heat up, bringing the local temperature up to a point where the controller IC enters over-temperature shutdown, but it's unlikely. Personally, if the current heatsink is too big I would just find smaller ones and attach them. I don't really have a good reason, I just like parts running cool :)
- fabiensanglard 6y ago
  Thank you so much for the explanation. How do you know all that? I am interested in learning about motherboard design and wonder if there are books you would recommend about it.
  - mastax 6y ago
    I'm an electrical engineer by trade. The specifics in the post were lifted from the linked video since he already did the hard work of looking up the components and calculating the efficiency curve. I wish I had a book to recommend about motherboards specifically, I would like to read it!
seanalltogether 6y ago
Anyone have any experience with the level1 displayport switches? I've been keeping my eye on the new dp 1.4 switch that is eventually going to be released. https://store.level1techs.com/products/kvm-switch-2-port-dual-monitor-8k-model-mhkr7 https://store.level1techs.com/products/kvm-switch-2-port-dua... 4K 120hz seems about as forward compatible as I'll need for a decade at least.
shadykiller 6y ago
My LG Ultrawide 5k2k monitor has TB3 and two USB3.0 ports hub on the back. I can change source for the hub from TB3 to USB B input in the back. TB3 goes to my mac. My linux workstation is connected to the displayport and usb b. To switch between machines, I just change display and usb hub source. I do this from monitor menu right now, but should be scriptable with dpcc , I recently discovered.
elipsey 6y ago
does anyone know what headphones those are?
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  Sennheiser momentums. They sound great, and the fit is good if you have a tiny head and tiny ears. Otherwise you'll be swapping out the pads or not wearing them for more than a few hours.
  - elipsey 6y ago
    TY :-)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
r00fus 6y ago
The keyboard/trackpad input setup is the buried lede here. I'd love to give that a go.
- fabiensanglard 6y ago
  Ergodox EZ is the best keyboard I ever came across. I highly recommend it. The Magic Track pad has been fully reverse engineered and works on Mac, Windows, and Linux. Also highly recommended.
- autocorr 6y ago
  The ErgoDox EZ[1] is very cool. The split is nice on the shoulders and upper back. My favorite part is that they are fully programmable and easy to customize with the online configuration tool. You can see my setup for some of the crazy stuff you can do[2]. [1] https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/ [2] https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/mlGrD/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/mlGrD/la...
fatboy93 6y ago
Very informative article! I love the website that OP has created though. Does anybody know what stack/platform is it based upon?
- fabiensanglard 6y ago
  It is just HTML with CSS. I wrote a php generator that pics up src.php in each folders, adds header and a footer, and write back index.html. Nothing more.
gautamcgoel 6y ago
For anyone in interested in building a silent PC, I have some simple advice: use a Noctua CPU heatsink and Noctua case fans. They are whisper-quiet, and I spent < $100 for all the fans in my system. They are the most premium-feeling computer product I have ever used; the CPU heatsink was very heavy and solid, and came with all the tools needed for installation including a screwdriver and thermal paste. Highly recommend, 10/10.
- jules 6y ago
  The Noctua NH-D14 is the best heatsink, but Arctic P14 PWM fans are superior to Noctua, and much cheaper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1S9RhABa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1S9RhABa8
- vosper 6y ago
  Adding to this: BeQuiet cases. You want that internal sound dampening on all sides of the case (so avoid tempered glass) to get rid of any annoying high-pitched coil whine, not just to silence the drone from fans. I have an overclocked 9700K with a BeQuiet case, the stock BeQuiet fans (which are quiet) plus a Noctua heatsink and extra Noctua case fan. After having adjusted the fan curves it runs cool and is inaudble (from less than 1m away) without headphones.
  - 0134340 6y ago
    I'm not sure I can recommend it. I went from an Antec 900 to a BeQuiet PureBase 500 and although it's a good case for a good price, I'm disappointed in noise and thermals. Turns out, as many reviewers have pointed out and others long realized, you're better off with a more open case with bigger and slower fans than an enclosed one where you have to run your fans at higher rpms to get equivalent thermals. It's actually noisier and has worse thermals than my 13yr old Antec even after configuring for a quieter fan rpm profile. Although the newer DX model seems to have improved a bit in that area of increased airflow which pretty much defeats the noise savings from insulated panels. All in all, it's still quiet enough that it's not distracting, good enough for me.
deleted 6y ago
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glangdale 6y ago
I got very excited by his diagram, which seemed to imply that there exists a TB3 dock that's also a KVM. This is a product that needs to exist and I would pay a lot of money for it (as long as it worked well - there seem to be a lot of janky TB3 docks already even without the challenges of KVM). If I had a slightly less wacky WD19 that had 2 or 4 input ports it would enormously simplify my current and future setups.
- MAGZine 6y ago
  not exactly what you're asking, but i've used a dell monitor that acted as a kvm switch. macbook was connected via usb-c, and dell laptop was connected via HDMI. Though you could also use displayport. Monitor seemlessly switched my magic trackpad/keyboard input between the mac and pc.
  - glangdale 6y ago
    I have 2-3 monitors I'd like in this setup. My Dell monitor can do what you describe, but lacks the ports of a real dock (don't think it has outgoing Ethernet). At the moment I have 2 monitors on the dock (which is my main setup) and a 3rd monitor on a separate machine with KVM (which means 2 keyboards and 2 mice) - this supports 4 computers (2 laptops, 2 desktops) - work+home laptops on the dual-monitor dock and Linux+PC desktops on the KVM. It's not a pretty setup.
- greggyb 6y ago
  I've had good luck with an IOGear DisplayPort KVM. I would also like the two items merged. As it stands, I'm already in the process of making a new desk-top (like the wood on top of the legs, not like another computer), and I plan to give these items their own space on the underside of the desk top, either on shelves or with some other mounting mechanism. You can see the major layout here (just listing the connectivity): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25522719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25522719
arendtio 6y ago
Took me a while to find out that just because my Thinkpad Notebook supports DisplayPort 1.2 and has Thunderbolt, it does not mean I can actually use the specified resolutions with the Thinkpad USB-C Dock Gen 2. For reference, DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k60Hz according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_limits_for_standard_video https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_... But when I look into the User Guide of the ThinkPad USB-C Dock Gen 2, the max resolution for DisplayPort 1.2 is 4k30Hz (Page 7): https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/options/thinkpad_usb-c_dock_gen2_ug_en_201903.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/options/thinkpad_usb-c_... I don't know if you have every used 30Hz with a mouse, but it sucks. Especially when you are used to 120Hz... Now I am looking for a Dock that actually supports 4k60Hz with DisplayPort 1.2.
- 3r8riacz 6y ago
  I've tried several docks and cables with no success until I've found this article: https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-... The recommended CableMatters dock solved the 4k60Hz issue with USB2.0 pheripherals connected (mouse, kb).
- the_pwner224 6y ago
  Generally usb-c docks can do 4k@30 but to get 60 you need a (any) thunderbolt dock. The TB port on the laptop can do 60 but you need a TB dock and not a USBC dock otherwise that would be the bottleneck. However if you just need video and not extra USB ports / Ethernet / etc., then a USB-C to DP adapter can do 60fps since it doesn't need to reserve bandwidth for the other stuff.
kuschku 6y ago
And that dock issue is why I'm so happy my Dell UP2718Q has a DP 1.4 & USB 3.2x4 KVM included. As there's just so few good options for this.
nbzso 6y ago
Side note: Looking at keyboard setup with Ergodox I realised why Kinesis Advantage 2 is better.

285 points by 0-_-0 6y ago

For those like me wondering more about the components, here's a previous article with the full list (of the initial build). https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html Here's the motherboard mentioned in the current article: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3... > 1 Thunderbolt™ 3 Type-C

dijit 6y ago

Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell. There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning. It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in. Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics. Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.

mikepurvis 6y ago
That's a bummer to hear; I have the WD15 dock through work and it's been excellent; I have a bunch of complaints about the XPS itself (power management, for example), but that dock has been great.
- ianai 6y ago
  For the prices, these docks have no excuse for bad behavior.
  - gumby 6y ago
    I dunno, TB is basically a mass of high frequency analog madness with long cables thrown into the mix. I, kind of astonished that it works at all, at any price.
- mmcnl 6y ago
  I also have a WD15 and it works very well. Connecting everything with one cable is a very nice feature. It's a USB-C dock though, and not Thunderbolt.
- alcidesfonseca 6y ago
  I have the WD15 connected to a 2016 MacBook Pro and it is incredibly unreliable. USB devices stop working randomly (mouse+keyboard), ethernet comes and goes as it pleases and the display output works for one month before stops working all together. The only thing that works reliably is power supply.
test1235 6y ago
I can echo this - our company runs off dell machines and our laptops came with these docks. Despite (in happier times) having to leave my desk frequently for meetings, with my laptop, I'd rather faff about with plugging and unplugging multiple cables than have to deal with the frustration of peripherals randomly losing connection while you're in the middle of working.
MrMid 6y ago
I have the WD19TB and it is great. I've never had problems with it, though Dell updates its firmware frequently, so it seems they are still tuning it.
- bionade24 6y ago
  I do have it, too and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
arnmac 6y ago
I had tons of problems with my TB16 and one prior Dell dock but the WD19 has been working flawlessly all year. I have used it with my XPS 7550 and 7590 and had no problems. I also have had good experience using it with a MacBook Pro 15.
v4nd0ck 6y ago
I started with the TB16 but after finding all these things out I actually switched to the TB15 and had much more success with that.
gspr 6y ago
Hold on! Is this why ethernet is exhibiting intermittent and impossible to diagnose behavior for me at work, and only for me?! Do you have some more information?
- MichaelZuo 6y ago
  What is typically called ‘ethernet’ is actually a family of interrelated protocols. Correct implementations are costly since they require quality components and fine-tuning between hardware, firmware, and software levels. Most consumer products just use generic components that some factory negotiators were willing to offload for cheap. The high end products with megabucks contracts are the ones capable of hitting guaranteed reliability targets. Apple, like for most other components, is the only big consumer brand that consistently uses something better than whatever was cheapest in Shenzhen. Even business oriented brands, like Western Digital, Brother, etc., have been cutting costs in these areas recently for their cheapest lines. Boutique smaller brands like CalDigit, Lacie, etc., who justify their premium pricing with quality, also usually puts effort into doing it correctly.
lloeki 6y ago
> the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frame I have a USB-C Novoo thingy (PD passthrough, HDMI, 3x USB-A, Ethernet) that might do something like that. If I plug Ethernet into my home router it ends up killing all other ethernet links on this router in about two minutes. I unplug it and things come back to life in under a second. The thing also has a habit to produce EM interference that makes WiFi useless. Would you believe, running a ping and wrapping the device's cord in tin foil back and forth and you can see the packet stop dropping and start again. Crazy.
- cat199 6y ago
  iogear usb-C -> 3x USB+ethernet - had the same EM interference with a MacBookPro, ended up wrapping the cable in an antistatic bag fragment, and good to go..
tda 6y ago
Recently wasted a morning at the office swapping all variants of Dell thunderbolt and USB-c docks, kept getting weird USB errors. Most frustrating was I couldn't reproduce the error at the helpdesk with same dock. The weirdest thing was usb peripherals were working fine, but somehow Windows kept giving me a non suppressable popup every minute ad infinitum. I don't see the point of docking stations anymore now you can get 49" screens with USB-c connectors. No reason to put a docking station in between or dual screen setups anymore
GordonS 6y ago
Also avoid the HP Thunderbolt Dock - was a steaming pile that is! On 2 identical laptops (fresh builds), 1 of them BSODs, the other works sometimes, but BSODs at random when resuming from sleep or plugging in devices. They've releases various versions of the firmware, along with various versions of various drivers that need to be installed on the laptop. Only some random variations of these work, and only on some devices, and only some of the time. Total garbage.
other_herbert 6y ago
I have this dock.. I basically just use it for the power and DisplayPort to a 4k60 display... since USB is awful on it I have a USB hub I plug in to the notebook also... So I guess calling that thing a “dock” is generous
0xTJ 6y ago
I was really impressed with the Dell WD19TB dock I was issued from work for COVID. I had never used a dock before, but having all my external displays (I used 2 DP, but I think it could handle 3 at once if using HDMI too), Ethernet, all the USB, and charging all through one port was amazing.
bionade24 6y ago
I have the WD19 and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
- bionade24 6y ago
  If you want to answer they have to because they sell Linux preinstalled: Their Ubuntu is garbage. If you setup Archlinux on your own, some features which haven't worked before will work, for example backlight oder hw acceleration. Still better than Lenovo telling it's a feature to not setup proprietairy Linux drivers on devices who need them.
  - eulers_secret 6y ago
    I have a 9310, and the stock Ubuntu was OK. The biggest issue is thermald was older and limited the frequency boosting (so lower perf). I run 20.10 now with thermald master and kernel 5.10.1 (includes patches which enable pc10 sleep states and 400mhz cpu idle speed). Now it boosts and idles appropriately. What’s “backlight oder hw acceleration” are you referring to refresh rate or something like PSR? I want to know if it’s something I need to check on my 9310...
    - pizza234 6y ago
      "oder" is "or" in German, so I think they meant "backlight or hw acceleration". I own a more recent Dell XPS 13, and the keyboard backlight support is indeed buggy - it needs a configuration patch to prevent it from turning on on logon. Not sure what's exactly the hw acceleration. If they refer to the Intel integrated GPUs, the configuration is pretty much standard; up to 18.04 the only thing I needed to configure was the VSync (this was the same also for other laptops), but with 20.04, I didn't need anymore.
OakNinja 6y ago
Tried loads of TB docks (as well as USB3 ones) and gave up. They all have annoying quirks. I finally settled with a Razer Core Chroma, with Ethernet and USB. My MBP16 is finally silent with external displays, and the offloading really helps during video calls.
- neodymiumphish 6y ago
  I had the original Razer core right when it launched. Razer did an excellent job with their eGPU TB3 enclosures. In my case, a firmware update made the USB ports practically unusable, and I eventually got Razer to accept it as a return, but I'm eventually going to go with them and their future iterations of the Core once I get a laptop that supports TB3/4.
NwtnsMthd 6y ago
I can second this! The TB16 works alright after updating it to the newest firmware, but still has it's quirks. For example, my mouse lags / cuts out briefly, now and then (I plug it in direct). The TB19 I use when working from home appears to have little to no issues (none that I can think of right now).
Bud 6y ago
I support a LOT of Thunderbolt docks for clients in my IT work and have also had experience with a lot of them personally. My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.
- vxNsr 6y ago
  issue with caldigit is that it only has one dp out, wd19 has 2, and an hdmi. my optimal dock would have/support: 3 video out (dp, hdmi, etc) 5+ usb-a (2.0 is fine) 2+ usb-c (3.2 preferred) gigEth
  - swiftcoder 6y ago
    The CalDigit only has one dedicated DisplayPort, but you can also plug a USB-C to DisplayPort cable into the outgoing ThunderBolt port - I had dual 4k60 monitors running for a while that way.
    - gumby 6y ago
      Daisy chain is supposed to work for two monitors, but I don’t know if it ever has in the wild. I believe it’s mandatory for TB4
      - swiftcoder 6y ago
        DisplayPort daisy chain is specifically unsupported by Mac OS since forever. If you dual-boot an Intel Mac to Windows (via BootCamp) it'll daisy chain just fine, so the hardware supports it, but booted to Mac it'll just ignore the second monitor in the chain. If you are lucky enough to own a Thunderbolt (note: not displayport) monitor, that can chain to a displayport monitor. But thunderbolt monitors are rare as all get out these days.
      - Bud 6y ago
        It's only on PCs that it doesn't work properly, because PC makers suck and never bothered to be honest about implementing Thunderbolt 3 properly. They didn't even tell the truth about it. That's why we have this utter silliness called "Thunderbolt 4". All Thunderbolt 4 is, is Thunderbolt 3, but actually implemented properly, with no wiggle room for chintzy PC makers to weasel out.
vxNsr 6y ago
Yup, we had a good venting session at our Dell rep about this issue last year. They were very aware of the issues, very apologetic and suggested we try some sorta displaylink garbage in the meantime. We did, and then as soon as the WD19 came out we tested that, and it's been night and day. They still require custom drivers but 99% of issues disappeared. I had one issue with a laptop that likely had a faulty tb module and was failing back to usb 3.1 but no other complaints from anyone. Well aside from the lack of usb ports on the thing... the Eport had like 8 usbs, the wd16 had 5 and now we're down to 3 on the wd19, that'd be fine if the laptops didn't keep dropping usb-a's also, most of the 7000 line only has 2 now. I refuse to get a usb dock to plug into the wd19 just for usb, that's insane and I'm not a crazy person.
908B64B197 6y ago
I wish Microsoft would open-source their magnetic Surface Connector. It Just Works with a dock, period. They made an USB-C adapter if you want to try out the buggy Thunderbolt/USB-C ecosystem.
glangdale 6y ago
I've used the WD19. I haven't experimented with Linux, but it's a pretty screwy device. A firmware update meant that it stopped playing "which device is going to work today" lucky dip, but it is always a festival of that Windows "hey, something interesting happened at a hardware level" noise as it takes 10 seconds and 3-4 redraws of the whole screen to finally figure out where all the displays are. It's workable on PC and Mac, but I don't love it.
dghughes 6y ago
I've had two jobs both government (not US) those WDx docks are terrible. The connector is a two inch lever just waiting for something to break it off.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Personally I disagree, I love my WD19TB. It's hooked up to all my peripherals and monitor, and until a proper TB3 KVM comes into existence, I plug it into my laptop or desktop as needed. Nice to be able to swap a single plug and get full speed everything.
  - dghughes 6y ago
    I'm referring to the sheer volume of calls I got to replace or update or reset the docks. It was probably in the top three of calls I would get maybe even #1.

treve 6y ago

I just also started looking into Thunderbolt 3 docks after only getting 4k30hz. $400+ CAD is so much though! Im curious if anyone here has recommendations

filleokus 6y ago
I've looked at the Dell WD19TB, after using the previous gen Dell one from work. But I don't know about 4k support, since I only use 2560x1440 screens, which seems to work fine. EDIT: Ah.. I saw now it was well above 400 CAD from Dell Canada
dschuler 6y ago
It depends on the configuration you're interested in, but there are some _relatively_ inexpensive ones from Monoprice [0]. I've tested this one with dual 4k monitors @ 60Hz, and USB 3. It works reliably, which is the most important aspect for me. No laptop charging and fixed TB cable however. [0] https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31262 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31262
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  Note that this working will depend heavily on what usb-3 peripherals you're plugging in, and the exact resolution of your 4k monitors. a display at 3840x2160@60hz will eat up about 19.8gbps. Two of them together will use 39.6gpbs. Thunderbolt 3 only supports 40gbps. So if you have peripherals that need anything more than basic mouse/keyboard (in my case, a decent webcam and a usb to ethernet adapter) this setup will fail.
  - dschuler 6y ago
    I'm no video expert, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you can do 3840x2160@60Hz video with 24bit/pixel with under 14.4Gbps, which is the HDMI 2.0 limit [0]. According to this [1], that signal would require 12.54Gbps, so with a link budget of 34.56Gbps - 2*12.65Gbps, you'd have about 9.48Gbps left over for USB and ethernet (which is on the PCI bus for this particular hub). I suppose these numbers include coding overhead for the physical link, but I can't say for sure. If you wanted more than 60Hz or more than 24bit/pixel, you'd definitely run out of bandwidth with two monitors and USB/ethernet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0 [1] https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&H=3440&V=1440&F=120&calculations=show&formulas=show https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cabl...

protoman3000 6y ago

Bought a used HP Elite Thunderbolt 3 Dock for ~50€ off eBay and never regretted it. Watch out to get the correct cables and chargers though!

tmakks 6y ago

Which CPU did he use? And why is there a Macbook on all drawings? How is it related to the actual silent PC?

rzzzt 6y ago
Fabien is trying to share the 4K display between the silent PC and the Macbook, but it is not possible through a single USB 3 hub due to bandwidth limitations. The second image suggests that a separate display cable from each device fixes the issue, and the rest of the peripherals can still be shared through the hub. ...I should probably also read through the entire article, it does not end here :)
dijit 6y ago
Ryzen 5 2600 is the cpu listed on the original spec sheet. I don’t think it supports thunderbolt though.
- Latty 6y ago
  The Thunderbolt in this case is coming from the chipset on the motherboard, not the CPU. He lists the motherboard as an X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 which supports 2nd gen Ryzen, and which has that support built in.
  - rashkov 6y ago
    Does this explain the author’s surprise that apple’s fanless MacBooks can handle thunderbolt 3 without getting hot? If they’re doing it on cpu then I suppose that could bring about a lot of cpu i/o efficiency.
    - mastax 6y ago
      The X570 chipset is strange. It's just a Zen 2 IO die backported to GlobalFoundries 14nm. Presumably they were able to remove the unnecessary parts (memory controller) while backporting, but maybe they're reusing excess chips if they chose late in the process to move the IO die to 12nm. I'd guess there's some inefficiency from being a clever hack and not exactly designed for purpose. Additionally, the X570 chipset supports a lot of peripherals: - 16x PCIe 4.0 lanes + 4x lanes to the CPU - 12 SATA 3 ports (some PHYs are shared with PCIe lanes so you can't have all of both) - 8 USB 3.0 10Gbps (I'm not going to google the "official" nomenclature, ugh) - 4 USB 2.0 - Other things like SuperIO and SMBus which don't use much power Far more peripherals than M1. (Probably, it seems there's still no detailed specs about the thing anywhere). Then there's the process advantage, 14nm GF to 5nm TSMC is a huge difference for all the logic involved. The advantage is dampened somewhat for IO because a significant portion of the power is used to drive the signals out of the chip, which is not affected by process changes. Apple's PCIe 4.0 PHYs may be more efficient considering X570 is a first generation PCIe 4.0 design. Also, the power consumption of X570 is not that bad for what it is, 7-10W [0]. AMD must be a stickler about the 15W TDP because the fan seems unnecessary. This article is basically the worst case scenario: small heatsink on a cramped ITX motherboard in a passive case with no airflow. Maybe BCLK overclocking would run the fan? Or a dust clogged no-airflow case in a hot climate running all the peripherals at full bore? [0]: https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2019/7/b3affde4-8a75-4475-b186-fbc3bbeaca65.jpg https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2019/7/b3affde4-8a75-4475-b...

bootlooped 6y ago

There's something I don't understand: does switching between laptop and pc with that hub require unplugging one usb c cable from the back of the hub and plugging the other one in? I'm very interested in a similar setup. So far I don't think I've figured out an elegant solution. My current solution is to have both devices plugged into the monitor, and use a usb hub to share the peripherals, manually moving the cable to the hub between devices.

horsawlarway 6y ago
I had the same problem earlier this year - I settled on a similar approach, but I use a usb switch so I don't have to unplug/replug anything on swap. Here's the exact model I ended up getting (I'm not affiliated in any way) https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Selector-Computers-Peripheral-Switcher/dp/B01N6GD9JO https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Selector-Computers-Peripheral-... Now I can plug my laptop into my dock, and just press a button to switch all my usb devices between machines. It's actually a really nice workflow, nice enough that sometimes I'll leave the desktop up on my second monitor playing music or videos when I'm doing heavy processing on my work laptop, and just occasionally switch my mouse/keyboard between them with a button press.
xondono 6y ago
I do something similar, but I got a $20 usb3.1 switch on Amazon and taped that to the back of my monitor. When I want to switch, I just change the input on the monitor and press the button behind it. It’s not the 1-click solution that I wanted, but it’s close enough and cheap. Switching USB ports is cheap, switching video signals isn’t.
- iamacyborg 6y ago
  You can buy cheap Displayport switches that work just like the usb one you have.
  - xondono 6y ago
    That’s the plan once I upgrade. For now I’m still using my 2015 mbp, so it’s displayport from my desktop and HDMI from the laptop. Finding a cheap switch capable of doing both is not that easy

tomekowal 6y ago

I see standing desk and a monitor arm. My question is: does the arm wobble much when you adjust height? If not: what kind of arm are you using?

orev 6y ago
As someone with a similar setup: yes, it can wobble a little; no, it’s not a big deal and the reviewers who make it into such a big issue are just inventing things to complain about.
smarx007 6y ago
All arms will wobble a certain amount if you try adjusting the position with one hand. Just use two hands and there will be not much wobbling.
andjd 6y ago
I have a similar setup, using an Amazon Basics monitor arm. There's a slight jutter in the monitor when the movement stops and starts, but the monitor always ends up in the same place at the end of the move, and the connections to the desk and the monitor are solid enough that I don't worry about it.

bluedino 6y ago

All the docks seem like they are bad in their own way. Almost every one has a flaw. I can understand why Apple didn't bother making one.

geertj 6y ago
I'm having good luck with the CalDigit TS3
- acjohnson55 6y ago
  +1 to this. It's rock solid.
- supermatt 6y ago
  if you are in clamshell mode, with display connected through the dock, will the display resume from sleep? I have tried a number of TB3 docks (pretty much all except the caldigit), and they ALL have the problem (on MBP m1 at least) that the display will not wake when in clamshell mode. Display wakes fine when connected directly as USB-3 monitor. Appreciate if you can test this and let me know :D
  - mnutt 6y ago
    Using the Caldigit TB3 with a 2019 16" MBP in clamshell mode with two 4k LG monitors through the dock, I've found it pretty tedious trying to wake the monitors from sleep. Sometimes it'll take 30-45s of the monitors going in and out of power saving mode before it actually wakes up. This does seem to be the MBP's fault, because I can temporarily fix it by resetting the NVRAM. Other than that, overall I've had a really positive experience with the TB3.
    - supermatt 6y ago
      Thanks - I think ill pick one up and see how it fares.
  - selectodude 6y ago
    I have my 2016 15" hooked up to a 4K monitor via Displayport without any issues. Been using this dock + display for a couple years now.

gehwartzen 6y ago

Thunderbolt 3 really is amazing. Im using a OWC Thunderbolt Dock to connect my MacBook to: an eGPU thats driving a 5K monitor, a 1TB TB3 SSD, and 24/96 USB audio to my stereo. All over one cable. BTW if your using TB3 as your main connection to your laptop I highly recommend a magnetic TB3 adapter. This has been working great in my setup for over a year and makes docking/undocking a snap. https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Thunderbolt3-Connector-Transfer-Compatible/dp/B0896QK2J5 https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Thunderbolt3-Connector-Trans...

rmorey 6y ago
what egpu do you have?
- gehwartzen 6y ago
  Right now it's a Radeon Vega 64 in a Sonnet Breakaway Box. My monitor is a HP Z27Q and its being driving over two Diplayport Cables to get 5K resolution.
tutfbhuf 6y ago
Is it possible to buy an PCIe to TB3 adapter cable and connect any modern graphics card to a laptop or mini atx board that has TB3?
- opencl 6y ago
  That's basically what all of those eGPU boxes are. You can buy just the enclosure and pop whatever GPU you want in, provided the enclosure has an adequate power supply.
- nicolas_t 6y ago
  Yes, it is. There's a few egpu enclosure. Take a look at egpu.info There's a small performance penalty and it's not always perfectly reliable but it works well enough and is very convenient.
- komali2 6y ago
  As other people mentioned, egpu container. For what it's worth, I didn't find this to be, well, worth it. I got a razer egpu enclosure and while it was certainly very well engineered, it was comically over-engineered. Weighed something crazy even without my gpu in it, I wanna say 10lbs, maybe even 15. Plus, it was huge, as big as an itx case. Then I had to drop 60$ on a long enough thunderbolt Cable to let me have the case under my desk. Then there was all the issues with plugging in a laptop. Windows on a lenovo x1 carbon worked fine, with plug in/out capabilities. Ubuntu 18.04 on same machine wasn't plug and play, but I got it working after about an hour of fiddling. Never got plug in/out working. Plug in worked, but unplug without shutting down lead to a crash. All this and the enclosure was like 300$, and I was bottlenecked by my laptop processor anyway. In the end I think it's just simpler to buy that expensive graphics card you're looking at, then build a simple pc around it, and then make use of some kind of network based workflow for data sharing (git server for your code, networked hard drives for video, photo, music editing etc. Much easier, much more flexible, and imo in the end cheaper.

marinhero 6y ago

This is great! I’ve been eyeing the same motherboard to get a similar setup but I do have a GPU. Wouldn’t that break the setup? I could only connect peripherals to the dock and handle the monitors separately. I believe that would end the one cable dream :(

rashkov 6y ago
Not sure if the author uses an internal or a discrete gpu, but this build does mention: “ Another weirdness is the 1 foot DP to DP cable required to connect the GPU DP-output to the Mobo DP-input. This is required to get the video stream on the Thunderbolt port.”
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  Assuming he only replaced the motherboard here, according to the original specs it has a small form factor 1050 ti: https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html
kraftman 6y ago
You plug the GPU into the motherboard and it then asses the displayport over the thunderbolt connection.

cbm-vic-20 6y ago

The author includes a diagram that shows his PC and his laptop plugged in via Thunderbolt 3 to the CalDigit TS3+ dock, and no direct connection to the monitor. Looking at the dock's product page[1], I don't see how this can have two hosts connected; did I miss something in this article? [1] https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/ https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/

least 6y ago
No, you didn't miss anything. I'm assuming that he just unplugs the cable from one when he wants to use the other. As far as I know there aren't any sort of KVM thunderbolt 3 hubs in existence.
- FroshKiller 6y ago
  I use that CalDigit dock with my work laptop and personal laptop, and I just swap the cable. Adding a KVM switch just for that use case wouldn't make sense in my opinion.
  - johnwalkr 6y ago
    Good idea actually, I’m using 2 PCs with one monitor over USB-c. The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources. I didn’t even think of swapping the cable!
    - greggyb 6y ago
      > The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources This sounds like a job for Autohotkey or a similar automation tool. It's worth learning something like this on your platform.
      - johnwalkr 6y ago
        I can’t change the input from a pc, only using buttons on the monitor itself. Using i2c over display port is possible to change input source but I don’t really have the will to spend time on trying it. Incidentally, I was asked to uninstall autohotkey from my work PC because some corporate spyware detected it as a threat.

nicolas_t 6y ago

I have the same motherboard and the same enclosure. The enclosure is really great, well designed and easy to use. For the heatsink, I actually bent some of the pipes and used the lh6 kit to use two sides of the enclosure for heat dissipation instead of one side only. The thunderbolt port on that mother board works great. I have an egpu that I'm sharing between my laptop and this computer and it works perfectly on windows. I haven't managed yet to configure VFIO so that it works well on a windows VM in linux though.

owenversteeg 6y ago
That is a really cool enclosure, I love it. The totally fanless, silent aspect plus the sleek design, just perfect.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jrrrr 6y ago

Looks like that board is the sole option for Thunderbolt && AMD && ITX. Bummer that there are no options with passively-cooled B550 chipsets. I do something similar to the post's two-cable configuration: - Mac to Caldigit TB dock to two displays. - PC to one of the displays - Keyboard and mouse to a USB switch, which connects to the PC and the TB dock It's kind of a pain to manually flip both the USB switch and the monitor's input. This app can theoretically help by programmatically toggling the display's input when particular USB devices are dis/connected: https://github.com/haimgel/display-switch https://github.com/haimgel/display-switch .. but compatibility is spotty, relying on a rarely-used hardware feature in the display that seems to not be reliably implemented ("DDC/CI").

johnwalkr 6y ago
Having used only a MacBook for 4 USB-c/thunderbolt ports for several years, and having moved all of my stuff (even my cordless shaver!) to USB-c / thunderbolt, I was really surprised and annoyed when I built an AMD gaming PC and realized I could only get 1 or 2 USB-c ports and almost no options for thunderbolt. It made me realize why most mice, etc are USB-a still.
- yurishimo 6y ago
  Well up until late last year or so, Thunderbolt was an Intel only thing. They then released it to the USB consortium and USB4 is an extension of Thunderbolt. So this motherboard the OP used is probably one of the first ones with USB4 compat. I expect a lot more AMD mobos to support thunderbolt in the next year. Music producers especially really like the interface for it's low latency and bandwidth, and Ryzen would be an awesome pairing for the resource hungry applications they tend to gravitate towards.
lgierth 6y ago
You're obviously correct for ITX, but I was surprised when I found out that (on larger boards) you can simply get a Thunderbolt PCIe card from Asus, Dell, etc. and it will just work. It appears that in many cases, the infamous THB_C header on mainboards doesn't serve any purpose.

rektide 6y ago

it's funny because in the modern era the northridge is now on CPU package and the south bridge/io-hub is not even in the box any more!

otterpro 6y ago

I had to do a double-take on that PC case, as I thought I was seeing a NeXT cube. I'd love to get this on [Streacom DB4 FANLESS CHASSIS - Newegg.com](https://www.newegg.com/silver-streacom-db4-mini-itx-media-center-htpc-case/p/2AM-005T-00009?Item=9SIA5FYB8K6767 https://www.newegg.com/silver-streacom-db4-mini-itx-media-ce...), but it is $389 + $100 shipping!

sigzero 6y ago
If I was building one, I would buy it. It is very cool.

xorcist 6y ago

On the topic of silent PCs, I've been very happy with the HD-plex.com H1 chassis. It's about $200 and you have to stick under 65W. It's basically a big heatsink. They have bigger ones as well that can handle GPUs, haven't tested those. Ever since SDDs became available for consumers I wanted a PC without any moving parts or fans. I've had it for over two years now and having a dead silent PC has been just as great as I had imagined.

nwah1 6y ago
Have one. It looks very sharp. But, after only two years my rig bit the dust. A particular component must have fried from overheating, but I don't know which yet. Realistically you should be more in the 35W range with this setup. And alas, finding a good 35W Ryzen APU is a challenge. There simply aren't any of a recent generation for sale anywhere.

emilecantin 6y ago

I have the Plugable TBT3-UDZ dock for my MacBook Pro, and I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it. It supports 2 displays, has a bunch of ports, and has its own power supply (i.e. my power brick can stay in my laptop bag). Construction quality is nice as well. Only "problem" I've had with it is finding the correct adapters, as I'm using it with DVI & VGA displays (it needs "active" adapters for this). I have finally achieved the "dream" of only having a single cable to connect / disconnect when I want to bring my laptop with me. Full specs here: https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz#nav-specifications https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz#nav-specifications

yboris 6y ago

My favorite blog on the "silent" / "fanless" topic: https://www.fanlesstech.com/ https://www.fanlesstech.com/

yboris 6y ago

Another way to "silence" a PC is to put it in another room. Mine is across the wall - with just the HDMI and USB cables coming through a small wall hole (PVC pipe to make the edges smooth). I highly recommend it.

bombcar 6y ago
Modern cables (if you buy high quality ones) support incredible lengths - this is relatively easy to do in many situations.
- wan23 6y ago
  Except, of course, for Thunderbolt 3, where to get even reasonable lengths you have to pay $$$. https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/27/21339861/apple-thunderbolt-3-pro-cable-specs-price-available https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/27/21339861/apple-thunderbol...
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    What's the deal with these prices? Is it just because the connector is so compact? A 2-meter QSFP+ 40-gigabit copper cable is only about $25. https://www.fs.com/c/40g-qsfp-dac-1117 https://www.fs.com/c/40g-qsfp-dac-1117
    - wffurr 6y ago
      They are "active" cables and so have microcontrollers in them.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        But isn’t that an indictment of the whole architecture? 40-gig Ethernet reaches these distances with passive cables. Is it that the Ethernet people have moved the costs into the port and their ports cost more, while the thunderbolt ports cost less and the cables cost more?

wheybags 6y ago

The diagram shows he is only plugging in peripherals like keyboard, mouse, webcam. For things like that, USB2 should be fine, and you save a lot of headache. If you have a high performance usb3 storage device connected, you probably don't want it to switch with your KVM anyway.

thusjustin 6y ago

I'm curious about that keyboard setup. To the author- if you see this, can you share some of its details- I've been wanting to put together something similar.

Cactus2018 6y ago
Looks like a ErgoDox EZ on a stack of books and an Apple Magic Trackpad 2.
- fabiensanglard 6y ago
  Specs of the book stack: - Masters of Doom - Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai - Mid Century Modern At Home - Scandinavian Style at Home

ehnto 6y ago

My gaming rig is silent for 95% of operations, and a low hum at full tilt. Massive heatsinks give me the ability to turn off all fans and still stay at safe temps for anything that isn't a taxing game like Red Dead 2. I also 3D printed a new GPU shroud in high temp PLA that allowed me to place some Noctua fans softly mounted on the stock heatsink (which was already massive). The case itself is a Quiet PC case. Rock solid cases if you want one case to last you forever, even if you don't want the quietness they are just very stout. I usually overclock my PC once the parts stop being enough but I love the silence so much that I will probably just buy better parts this time around, rather than require over the top potentially loud cooling.

mastax 6y ago

The tall thin heatsink at the edge of the motherboard is cooling part of the VRM. The VRM or Voltage Regulator Module is responsible for converting the 12V input down to 1.3V or so for the CPU. Under that heatsink there are 2 of the 8 phases for CPU Vcore and 2 phases for Vsoc. It would be pretty safe to remove that heatsink, even in a passive case because: - Vsoc draws very little power, especially with no iGPU. - The VRM is designed to survive providing 200A to a 16 core 3950X, 50A to a 2600 is very easy by comparison. Maybe 6W of heat split among the 8 phases so <2W of heat on these 2 phases. - The MOSFETs will happily run all day at up to 125C. - The MOSFETs are smart power stages which communicate their temperature to the controller, and have many built-in protections, so there's extremely little risk of damage. The controller probably shares load amongst the phases based on temperature but I can't find a datasheet to confirm. Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXwjwxb39EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXwjwxb39EA

NwtnsMthd 6y ago
Yup, most MOSFETs will have no trouble running at 125C! The power supplies in some of our products occasionally run at 180C, without heat-sinking. But these aren't designed to last as long as a motherboard VRM. In general cooler is better. At high temps you'll see temperature related aging accelerate (e.g. solder, PCB substrate, electromigration in the parts), but you'd probably be okay. The PC would become obsolete way before the VRM fails. The worst case I can imagine is the MOSFETs and inductors heat up, bringing the local temperature up to a point where the controller IC enters over-temperature shutdown, but it's unlikely. Personally, if the current heatsink is too big I would just find smaller ones and attach them. I don't really have a good reason, I just like parts running cool :)
fabiensanglard 6y ago
Thank you so much for the explanation. How do you know all that? I am interested in learning about motherboard design and wonder if there are books you would recommend about it.
- mastax 6y ago
  I'm an electrical engineer by trade. The specifics in the post were lifted from the linked video since he already did the hard work of looking up the components and calculating the efficiency curve. I wish I had a book to recommend about motherboards specifically, I would like to read it!

seanalltogether 6y ago

Anyone have any experience with the level1 displayport switches? I've been keeping my eye on the new dp 1.4 switch that is eventually going to be released. https://store.level1techs.com/products/kvm-switch-2-port-dual-monitor-8k-model-mhkr7 https://store.level1techs.com/products/kvm-switch-2-port-dua... 4K 120hz seems about as forward compatible as I'll need for a decade at least.

shadykiller 6y ago

My LG Ultrawide 5k2k monitor has TB3 and two USB3.0 ports hub on the back. I can change source for the hub from TB3 to USB B input in the back. TB3 goes to my mac. My linux workstation is connected to the displayport and usb b. To switch between machines, I just change display and usb hub source. I do this from monitor menu right now, but should be scriptable with dpcc , I recently discovered.

elipsey 6y ago

does anyone know what headphones those are?

Godel_unicode 6y ago
Sennheiser momentums. They sound great, and the fit is good if you have a tiny head and tiny ears. Otherwise you'll be swapping out the pads or not wearing them for more than a few hours.
- elipsey 6y ago
  TY :-)
deleted 6y ago
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r00fus 6y ago

The keyboard/trackpad input setup is the buried lede here. I'd love to give that a go.

fabiensanglard 6y ago
Ergodox EZ is the best keyboard I ever came across. I highly recommend it. The Magic Track pad has been fully reverse engineered and works on Mac, Windows, and Linux. Also highly recommended.
autocorr 6y ago
The ErgoDox EZ[1] is very cool. The split is nice on the shoulders and upper back. My favorite part is that they are fully programmable and easy to customize with the online configuration tool. You can see my setup for some of the crazy stuff you can do[2]. [1] https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/ [2] https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/mlGrD/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/mlGrD/la...

fatboy93 6y ago

Very informative article! I love the website that OP has created though. Does anybody know what stack/platform is it based upon?

fabiensanglard 6y ago
It is just HTML with CSS. I wrote a php generator that pics up src.php in each folders, adds header and a footer, and write back index.html. Nothing more.

gautamcgoel 6y ago

For anyone in interested in building a silent PC, I have some simple advice: use a Noctua CPU heatsink and Noctua case fans. They are whisper-quiet, and I spent < $100 for all the fans in my system. They are the most premium-feeling computer product I have ever used; the CPU heatsink was very heavy and solid, and came with all the tools needed for installation including a screwdriver and thermal paste. Highly recommend, 10/10.

jules 6y ago
The Noctua NH-D14 is the best heatsink, but Arctic P14 PWM fans are superior to Noctua, and much cheaper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1S9RhABa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1S9RhABa8
vosper 6y ago
Adding to this: BeQuiet cases. You want that internal sound dampening on all sides of the case (so avoid tempered glass) to get rid of any annoying high-pitched coil whine, not just to silence the drone from fans. I have an overclocked 9700K with a BeQuiet case, the stock BeQuiet fans (which are quiet) plus a Noctua heatsink and extra Noctua case fan. After having adjusted the fan curves it runs cool and is inaudble (from less than 1m away) without headphones.
- 0134340 6y ago
  I'm not sure I can recommend it. I went from an Antec 900 to a BeQuiet PureBase 500 and although it's a good case for a good price, I'm disappointed in noise and thermals. Turns out, as many reviewers have pointed out and others long realized, you're better off with a more open case with bigger and slower fans than an enclosed one where you have to run your fans at higher rpms to get equivalent thermals. It's actually noisier and has worse thermals than my 13yr old Antec even after configuring for a quieter fan rpm profile. Although the newer DX model seems to have improved a bit in that area of increased airflow which pretty much defeats the noise savings from insulated panels. All in all, it's still quiet enough that it's not distracting, good enough for me.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

glangdale 6y ago

I got very excited by his diagram, which seemed to imply that there exists a TB3 dock that's also a KVM. This is a product that needs to exist and I would pay a lot of money for it (as long as it worked well - there seem to be a lot of janky TB3 docks already even without the challenges of KVM). If I had a slightly less wacky WD19 that had 2 or 4 input ports it would enormously simplify my current and future setups.

MAGZine 6y ago
not exactly what you're asking, but i've used a dell monitor that acted as a kvm switch. macbook was connected via usb-c, and dell laptop was connected via HDMI. Though you could also use displayport. Monitor seemlessly switched my magic trackpad/keyboard input between the mac and pc.
- glangdale 6y ago
  I have 2-3 monitors I'd like in this setup. My Dell monitor can do what you describe, but lacks the ports of a real dock (don't think it has outgoing Ethernet). At the moment I have 2 monitors on the dock (which is my main setup) and a 3rd monitor on a separate machine with KVM (which means 2 keyboards and 2 mice) - this supports 4 computers (2 laptops, 2 desktops) - work+home laptops on the dual-monitor dock and Linux+PC desktops on the KVM. It's not a pretty setup.
greggyb 6y ago
I've had good luck with an IOGear DisplayPort KVM. I would also like the two items merged. As it stands, I'm already in the process of making a new desk-top (like the wood on top of the legs, not like another computer), and I plan to give these items their own space on the underside of the desk top, either on shelves or with some other mounting mechanism. You can see the major layout here (just listing the connectivity): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25522719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25522719

arendtio 6y ago

Took me a while to find out that just because my Thinkpad Notebook supports DisplayPort 1.2 and has Thunderbolt, it does not mean I can actually use the specified resolutions with the Thinkpad USB-C Dock Gen 2. For reference, DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k60Hz according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_limits_for_standard_video https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_... But when I look into the User Guide of the ThinkPad USB-C Dock Gen 2, the max resolution for DisplayPort 1.2 is 4k30Hz (Page 7): https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/options/thinkpad_usb-c_dock_gen2_ug_en_201903.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/options/thinkpad_usb-c_... I don't know if you have every used 30Hz with a mouse, but it sucks. Especially when you are used to 120Hz... Now I am looking for a Dock that actually supports 4k60Hz with DisplayPort 1.2.

3r8riacz 6y ago
I've tried several docks and cables with no success until I've found this article: https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-... The recommended CableMatters dock solved the 4k60Hz issue with USB2.0 pheripherals connected (mouse, kb).
the_pwner224 6y ago
Generally usb-c docks can do 4k@30 but to get 60 you need a (any) thunderbolt dock. The TB port on the laptop can do 60 but you need a TB dock and not a USBC dock otherwise that would be the bottleneck. However if you just need video and not extra USB ports / Ethernet / etc., then a USB-C to DP adapter can do 60fps since it doesn't need to reserve bandwidth for the other stuff.

kuschku 6y ago

And that dock issue is why I'm so happy my Dell UP2718Q has a DP 1.4 & USB 3.2x4 KVM included. As there's just so few good options for this.

nbzso 6y ago

Side note: Looking at keyboard setup with Ergodox I realised why Kinesis Advantage 2 is better.