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Fun fact: German public media have the highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way. Just recently they proposed to increase

Fun fact: German public media have the highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way. Just recently they proposed to increase even further the monthly broadcasting fee. For any foreginer in Germany unfamiliar with the system the bullish letters from brodcasting debt collection are a true slap in the face.

woodpanel 6y ago
highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way It has some funnny side-effects: If you manage to land a job there, you'll get paid under the same scheme as public servants, which means that e.g. if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree. The fun part comes when public broadcasters produce segments with a political slant towards anti-capitalism or towards poor people voting populist – and you know that each member of the film crew makes more than 90% of German households.
- _fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
  > if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree That is most definitely not true. This is not how the system works. There is a fixed table with different tiers. But not everyone with a university degree is in the same tier. It still very much depends on the job you are working.
- fsh 6y ago
  This is not true. Public servants are paid according to a different pay scale (TVöD [1]) than doctors at public hospitals (TV-Ärzte [2]). With a university degree, you get at most TVöD E13 (sometimes only E11), which is lower than the lowest pay grade for hospital doctors. [1] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=tvoed-bund-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=... [2] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommunal?id=tv-aerzte-vka-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommuna...
  - thg 6y ago
    If only the Rundfunkanstalten would actually pay according to public servant scale, our mandatory GEZ tax would be half of what it actually is. The WDR for example has a median pay of 130.000 Euros / year (+ pensions) across their 4.500 employees. That's not only * a lot* more than any public servant gets, it's more than you can earn at top DAX companies. The GP was wrong in claiming they're being paid under the same scheme as public servants, but they weren't wrong in calling them out for earning insane amounts of money. Now if only we'd actually get decent stuff in return, instead of 15 different talk shows that all have to be broadcast at the exact same time. Some of the stuff they produce is absolutely useful and of great quality, but that's maybe 5% of their entire program (across TV and radio) at best. I'd much rather pay for quality content like the BBC puts out, than Tom Buhrow's 400k Euro salary and "journalists" that ignore and fabricate facts just to have a sensationalized story[0] and then don't even face any repercussions for it. [0] German: https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche-skandal-um-swr-reporterin-judith-brosel-der-fall-erinnert-an-claas-relotius/ https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche...
  - realityking 6y ago
    And the public broadcasters have their own contracts. Here’s the one for WDR, the biggest ARD unit: https://wdr.verdi.de/++file++5657188a7713b86a6f000258/download/Verguetungstarifvertrag_WDR.pdf https://wdr.verdi.de/++file++5657188a7713b86a6f000258/downlo... Camera operators are group 5 and make between 3600 and 5100 Euro. (There are higher level position they can achieve up to 1. camera operator, which tops out at 7000€)
- germanier 6y ago
  Most camera operators work as so-called "fixed freelancers" and are not paid by any salary scheme at all. The payment scheme (as others have noted) is not the same. In addition, none of the payment schemes gives you a certain salary level just because you hold a university degree. The get to a certain level you have to in addition perform duties designated for that level, which a camera operator is not.
yborg 6y ago
What is the fee now?
- _Microft 6y ago
  ~18€/month per household, independent of number the members of the household or how many devices they have [0]. It's a controversial issue sometimes but I like the quality of the public broadcasting that this enables. Link [1] has a list of broadcasters, both TV and radio. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsservice_von_ARD,_ZDF_und_Deutschlandradio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsservice_von_ARD,_ZDF_u... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting#Germany
  - themodelplumber 6y ago
    It looks as if some of the money goes toward Arte, as well. From what I've seen of the content, that seems like a pretty good use of the funds...
    - woodpanel 6y ago
      "Arte has ghettoized culture on a channel that nobody watches (...) it gives other state channels an excuse to avoid broadcasting these types of shows altogether" - Dominique Wolton, Research Director of France's National Center for Research (2010) The statement equally holds true for German public broadcasting, which over the decades seems to have shifted focus on copying private broadcasters segments. It looks as if some of the money goes toward Arte, as well. Arte is payed for by France and Germany directly. No money of OP's fee goes to Arte
      - themodelplumber 6y ago
        It's so terrible that you needed a quote by a research director to really nail it home, eh? If true it seems pretty unfortunate.
        6y ago
fsh 6y ago
The fee is roughly on the same level as in the UK (210€ vs. £157.50)/household/year. Since there are dozens of regional public broadcasters in Germany, no single one is anywhere near as rich as the BBC though.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  CHF 1 per day here. (~EUR 340/household year) https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/electronic-media/radio-and-television-fee.html https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/electronic-medi...
- allendoerfer 6y ago
  That is just false. ARD alone has a budget of 6.3 billion € and is therefore on its own bigger (budgetwise) than the BBC, which has a budget of 5.3 billion €.
  - fsh 6y ago
    ARD is a union of nine independent regional public broadcasters + DW. None of these ten has anywhere near the budget of the BBC.
    - allendoerfer 6y ago
      BBC is a “union” of different broadcasts, too. You can tune into ARD the same way you can tune into BBC. Then you can switch the channel to BBC2 or NDR. BBC has a more centralized structure, ARD is still the most expensive public broadcaster in the world.
      - germanier 6y ago
        The ARD is unlike the BBC not a single entity but a loose cooperation of independent broadcasters. That was the posters claim and is entirely true. ARD's shared TV channel "Das Erste" clearly show on air which broadcaster was responsible for which segment shown.
bumbada 6y ago
This is a great thing because in places like in Spain the fee is not present, is is paid by taxes, and as a result, the Government controls it. So instead of serving the nation, radio and TV becomes the servant of local and presidential powers. This is not fun at all, this is dangerous, as the media is used mainly for propaganda. In Spain everybody pays TV3 that sponsors secessionism and RTVE that does promote socialism-comunism because those in charge are secessionist or socialist communist. This year RTVE's budget has increased 25%. For communists propaganda is essential.
- echelon 6y ago
  > This is not fun at all, this is dangerous, as the media is used mainly for propaganda. Well, in the United States we have Fox News and OAN. They're entirely commercial and serve a single party's interests. (Or rather, the interests of the management.) These channels are profitable because people want to watch it.
- WanderPanda 6y ago
  Its not like that is fundamentally different in germany. There is a socialist / green majority in the “journalists”. The only difference I see from your description is that in Germany it is not the media following the politics, but rather the politics following the media. It’s pretty messed up because there is a natural bias of anti market people inclined to join the state-run media where there is no competition. It’s ironical how every second “documentary” quickly diverts into complaining about monopolies and blaming capitalism for everything (even for the pandemic...) when they are part of one of the biggest and purest monopolies themselves... We just demand a simple opt out, is that too much to ask for?
  - mikojan 6y ago
    > The only difference I see from your description is that in Germany it is not the media following the politics, but rather the politics following the media. It works the same as everywhere. The state is reliably broadcasting a constant stream of press releases and other information. If you're a journalist, that's a good source in your day to day work. GEZ does not change that

woodpanel 6y ago

highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way It has some funnny side-effects: If you manage to land a job there, you'll get paid under the same scheme as public servants, which means that e.g. if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree. The fun part comes when public broadcasters produce segments with a political slant towards anti-capitalism or towards poor people voting populist – and you know that each member of the film crew makes more than 90% of German households.

_fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
> if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree That is most definitely not true. This is not how the system works. There is a fixed table with different tiers. But not everyone with a university degree is in the same tier. It still very much depends on the job you are working.
fsh 6y ago
This is not true. Public servants are paid according to a different pay scale (TVöD [1]) than doctors at public hospitals (TV-Ärzte [2]). With a university degree, you get at most TVöD E13 (sometimes only E11), which is lower than the lowest pay grade for hospital doctors. [1] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=tvoed-bund-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=... [2] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommunal?id=tv-aerzte-vka-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommuna...
- thg 6y ago
  If only the Rundfunkanstalten would actually pay according to public servant scale, our mandatory GEZ tax would be half of what it actually is. The WDR for example has a median pay of 130.000 Euros / year (+ pensions) across their 4.500 employees. That's not only * a lot* more than any public servant gets, it's more than you can earn at top DAX companies. The GP was wrong in claiming they're being paid under the same scheme as public servants, but they weren't wrong in calling them out for earning insane amounts of money. Now if only we'd actually get decent stuff in return, instead of 15 different talk shows that all have to be broadcast at the exact same time. Some of the stuff they produce is absolutely useful and of great quality, but that's maybe 5% of their entire program (across TV and radio) at best. I'd much rather pay for quality content like the BBC puts out, than Tom Buhrow's 400k Euro salary and "journalists" that ignore and fabricate facts just to have a sensationalized story[0] and then don't even face any repercussions for it. [0] German: https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche-skandal-um-swr-reporterin-judith-brosel-der-fall-erinnert-an-claas-relotius/ https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche...
- realityking 6y ago
  And the public broadcasters have their own contracts. Here’s the one for WDR, the biggest ARD unit: https://wdr.verdi.de/++file++5657188a7713b86a6f000258/download/Verguetungstarifvertrag_WDR.pdf https://wdr.verdi.de/++file++5657188a7713b86a6f000258/downlo... Camera operators are group 5 and make between 3600 and 5100 Euro. (There are higher level position they can achieve up to 1. camera operator, which tops out at 7000€)
germanier 6y ago
Most camera operators work as so-called "fixed freelancers" and are not paid by any salary scheme at all. The payment scheme (as others have noted) is not the same. In addition, none of the payment schemes gives you a certain salary level just because you hold a university degree. The get to a certain level you have to in addition perform duties designated for that level, which a camera operator is not.

yborg 6y ago

What is the fee now?

_Microft 6y ago
~18€/month per household, independent of number the members of the household or how many devices they have [0]. It's a controversial issue sometimes but I like the quality of the public broadcasting that this enables. Link [1] has a list of broadcasters, both TV and radio. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsservice_von_ARD,_ZDF_und_Deutschlandradio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsservice_von_ARD,_ZDF_u... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting#Germany
- themodelplumber 6y ago
  It looks as if some of the money goes toward Arte, as well. From what I've seen of the content, that seems like a pretty good use of the funds...
  - woodpanel 6y ago
    "Arte has ghettoized culture on a channel that nobody watches (...) it gives other state channels an excuse to avoid broadcasting these types of shows altogether" - Dominique Wolton, Research Director of France's National Center for Research (2010) The statement equally holds true for German public broadcasting, which over the decades seems to have shifted focus on copying private broadcasters segments. It looks as if some of the money goes toward Arte, as well. Arte is payed for by France and Germany directly. No money of OP's fee goes to Arte
    - themodelplumber 6y ago
      It's so terrible that you needed a quote by a research director to really nail it home, eh? If true it seems pretty unfortunate.
      - 6y ago

fsh 6y ago

The fee is roughly on the same level as in the UK (210€ vs. £157.50)/household/year. Since there are dozens of regional public broadcasters in Germany, no single one is anywhere near as rich as the BBC though.

082349872349872 6y ago
CHF 1 per day here. (~EUR 340/household year) https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/electronic-media/radio-and-television-fee.html https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/electronic-medi...
allendoerfer 6y ago
That is just false. ARD alone has a budget of 6.3 billion € and is therefore on its own bigger (budgetwise) than the BBC, which has a budget of 5.3 billion €.
- fsh 6y ago
  ARD is a union of nine independent regional public broadcasters + DW. None of these ten has anywhere near the budget of the BBC.
  - allendoerfer 6y ago
    BBC is a “union” of different broadcasts, too. You can tune into ARD the same way you can tune into BBC. Then you can switch the channel to BBC2 or NDR. BBC has a more centralized structure, ARD is still the most expensive public broadcaster in the world.
    - germanier 6y ago
      The ARD is unlike the BBC not a single entity but a loose cooperation of independent broadcasters. That was the posters claim and is entirely true. ARD's shared TV channel "Das Erste" clearly show on air which broadcaster was responsible for which segment shown.

bumbada 6y ago

This is a great thing because in places like in Spain the fee is not present, is is paid by taxes, and as a result, the Government controls it. So instead of serving the nation, radio and TV becomes the servant of local and presidential powers. This is not fun at all, this is dangerous, as the media is used mainly for propaganda. In Spain everybody pays TV3 that sponsors secessionism and RTVE that does promote socialism-comunism because those in charge are secessionist or socialist communist. This year RTVE's budget has increased 25%. For communists propaganda is essential.

echelon 6y ago
> This is not fun at all, this is dangerous, as the media is used mainly for propaganda. Well, in the United States we have Fox News and OAN. They're entirely commercial and serve a single party's interests. (Or rather, the interests of the management.) These channels are profitable because people want to watch it.
WanderPanda 6y ago
Its not like that is fundamentally different in germany. There is a socialist / green majority in the “journalists”. The only difference I see from your description is that in Germany it is not the media following the politics, but rather the politics following the media. It’s pretty messed up because there is a natural bias of anti market people inclined to join the state-run media where there is no competition. It’s ironical how every second “documentary” quickly diverts into complaining about monopolies and blaming capitalism for everything (even for the pandemic...) when they are part of one of the biggest and purest monopolies themselves... We just demand a simple opt out, is that too much to ask for?
- mikojan 6y ago
  > The only difference I see from your description is that in Germany it is not the media following the politics, but rather the politics following the media. It works the same as everywhere. The state is reliably broadcasting a constant stream of press releases and other information. If you're a journalist, that's a good source in your day to day work. GEZ does not change that