3 ms·

It can be argued that the barely-rich are also a huge part of "the problem." Collectively, they wield a great deal of influence through their wealth, networks,

by bsanr 6y ago

It can be argued that the barely-rich are also a huge part of "the problem." Collectively, they wield a great deal of influence through their wealth, networks, and savvy, and instead of using it to solve "the problem," they are largely involved in an intra-class competition to secure the next open actually-rich spot (or to simply maintain their standard of living, and particularly that of their children, regardless of merit). Fortunes that could go to feeding dozens of children, educating dozens of youths, housing dozens of homeless men and women, instead go to ensuring that a handful of people can keep up with their neighbors in vying for a spot at Yale for their boy or girl. Sure, in the process many salaries are paid, but you could also use that same amount of money and have the recipients of that aid number in the dozens or hundreds rather than be a handful or so. In the end, that spot at Yale will still be filled. The needle on the chances of it being Dr. and Mr. Irgendwas' child probably doesn't move that much, either.

boh 6y ago
Hate to burst your bubble but if you're one of the 25% of Americans who has an undergraduate degree or above you're likely part of that barely-rich who are part of "the problem" (from a global perspective making over $50k a year counts as barely rich). No one wants to admit to being a part of some "elite" minority because there's always someone else to blame who's higher up on the ladder. Ultimately policy makes change not some expectation for individual morality.
- rualca 6y ago
  > No one wants to admit to being a part of some "elite" minority because there's always someone else to blame who's higher up on the ladder. The problem with that point of view is that ignores the corollary that most of the people are not held do blame because there's always someone else which is privileged and has direct control over their lives and livelihood. Complaining that someone in the US earning $50k/year is responsible for the current state of affairs, when they can't even control their own lives, is miopic and sheer idiocy.
  - boh 6y ago
    Agreed, that's the point. How do you think the doctors and lawyers feel (or to be more specific to HN--the people doing well in the tech sector)? Having a finger pointed at you for living your life without "doing something" when you're not part of the country leadership is an aspect of the "change" myth we're often subject to (i.e. it's your fault things are bad, not the actual people in charge). *also depending on where you live, even within the US, $50k can be a decent salary.
    - bsanr 6y ago
      Doctors and lawyers are not making $50k a year. $50k is not even the average annual income in this country; it is not the income of the barely-wealthy. This is the problem: people making multiples of $50k live fundamentally different lives from those making sub-$50k. They have money to burn, and they do just that, often on self-serving goods and services with limited ROI compared to what the same amount of money would buy people with more basic concerns. However, they want to align themselves with struggling families and individuals culturally, because it absolves them of responsibility for changing private and public policy towards the nature of labor and welfare, and provides cover for them to continue their mindless march into the Moloch of a false meritocracy. If you're paying $30k-$50k a year to send your kid to a private school, we're not talking about the same kind of family as a people working one or two jobs sub-$20/hr just to make rent. No one listens to the latter; if you're the former, you have positioned yourself socially to be heard by the decision-makers and policy-executors. If you don't say anything except in your own defense, knowing what an educated person should know about poverty and suffering in America, even somehow envisioning yourself as among those suffering, that's a choice.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Doctors and lawyers are not making $50k a year For the most part, no. > $50k is not even the average annual income in this country That depends which average you are referring to. It's well above the median personal income (around $35K)—the median being usually the useful average for income statistics, but a little bit less than the mean personal income. (The most common “average income” number, though, is neither of those, but the median household income, which is close it $70K, but it doesn't really make sense to talk about an individual's income being average or not and looking at a household, instead of individual, metric to judge that.)
- bsanr 6y ago
  I have a degree and I've never made more than $35,000 in a year, pre-tax. This is not uncommon.

by bsanr 6y ago

boh 6y ago

Hate to burst your bubble but if you're one of the 25% of Americans who has an undergraduate degree or above you're likely part of that barely-rich who are part of "the problem" (from a global perspective making over $50k a year counts as barely rich). No one wants to admit to being a part of some "elite" minority because there's always someone else to blame who's higher up on the ladder. Ultimately policy makes change not some expectation for individual morality.

rualca 6y ago
> No one wants to admit to being a part of some "elite" minority because there's always someone else to blame who's higher up on the ladder. The problem with that point of view is that ignores the corollary that most of the people are not held do blame because there's always someone else which is privileged and has direct control over their lives and livelihood. Complaining that someone in the US earning $50k/year is responsible for the current state of affairs, when they can't even control their own lives, is miopic and sheer idiocy.
- boh 6y ago
  Agreed, that's the point. How do you think the doctors and lawyers feel (or to be more specific to HN--the people doing well in the tech sector)? Having a finger pointed at you for living your life without "doing something" when you're not part of the country leadership is an aspect of the "change" myth we're often subject to (i.e. it's your fault things are bad, not the actual people in charge). *also depending on where you live, even within the US, $50k can be a decent salary.
  - bsanr 6y ago
    Doctors and lawyers are not making $50k a year. $50k is not even the average annual income in this country; it is not the income of the barely-wealthy. This is the problem: people making multiples of $50k live fundamentally different lives from those making sub-$50k. They have money to burn, and they do just that, often on self-serving goods and services with limited ROI compared to what the same amount of money would buy people with more basic concerns. However, they want to align themselves with struggling families and individuals culturally, because it absolves them of responsibility for changing private and public policy towards the nature of labor and welfare, and provides cover for them to continue their mindless march into the Moloch of a false meritocracy. If you're paying $30k-$50k a year to send your kid to a private school, we're not talking about the same kind of family as a people working one or two jobs sub-$20/hr just to make rent. No one listens to the latter; if you're the former, you have positioned yourself socially to be heard by the decision-makers and policy-executors. If you don't say anything except in your own defense, knowing what an educated person should know about poverty and suffering in America, even somehow envisioning yourself as among those suffering, that's a choice.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Doctors and lawyers are not making $50k a year For the most part, no. > $50k is not even the average annual income in this country That depends which average you are referring to. It's well above the median personal income (around $35K)—the median being usually the useful average for income statistics, but a little bit less than the mean personal income. (The most common “average income” number, though, is neither of those, but the median household income, which is close it $70K, but it doesn't really make sense to talk about an individual's income being average or not and looking at a household, instead of individual, metric to judge that.)
bsanr 6y ago
I have a degree and I've never made more than $35,000 in a year, pre-tax. This is not uncommon.