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>>You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crow

>>You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crowdsale is well-documented by Ethereum-based information resources and there has been absolutely no effort to conceal or mislead about it. >> or multiple times reduced the issuance rate of mined coins to prop up the price as they sold their own premined positions might count against them You're conflating the community, which is the amorphous entity that has reduced the issuance rate, in accordance with a long-standing plan to adjust it to balance the need for security, and the need for token store-of-value functionality, and the Ethereum Foundation, which has no say in the hard forks that the community choose to support or not support.

randunel 6y ago
> Who's "they". ETH Cofounders got to keep 10% of the premined pool; Ethereum Foundation also got 10% of the premined pool. I'd presume these are "they".
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  When did ETH cofounders lie about the premine?
nadaviv 6y ago
lol, what? This is not how things work in Ethereum. The foundation has the authority to do anything it wants, despite the community's wishes. The DAO bailout hard fork showed that very well.
- bhaak 6y ago
  The Ethereum Classic community wants to have a word with you.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  The foundation has no authority over the protocol. It's purely a R&D grant issuer. The protocol is completely consensus based. The foundation doesn't even have its own full node client implementation. You're blatantly trying to deceive people.
nullc 6y ago
> Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crowdsale is well-documented by Ethereum-based information resources and there has been absolutely no effort to conceal or mislead about it. The founders and managers of Ethereum, who repeatability lie and claim that the premine was ~10% or that it wasn't substantially premined https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1208471215956013056 https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/120847121595601305...
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  In that tweet Buterin claims that the stake of the founders, including the non-profit Ethereum Foundation, was 11%. They're defining "premine" in a way to exclude "crowdsale", which is perfectly reasonable. Buterin elaborates on that here: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1209094163658149888 https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/120909416365814988...
  - nullc 6y ago
    It is absolutely unreasonable. Buterin is willingly committing fraud and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending it. He has a past history of fraud, so it's unsurprising-- it's less clear to me what you get out of it. A pre-mine doesn't stop being a pre-mine after you've sold it and lined your pockets with the proceeds. When they eventually finish[1] dumping the rest of their coins on misguided members of the public will the pre-mine be 0%? Obviously not. Moreover, the self same people made purchases in the "crowdsale" and then immediately paid those funds back to themselves. E.g. Hoskinson extracted a million dollars the day the presale closed. > the stake of the founders, including the non-profit Ethereum Foundation, was 11% Check your math because 12 million out of 72 million isn't 11%... nor does that include the additional funds 'purchased' in their share offerings (in scare-quotes because it's not really correct to call something a purchase when it was paid back). Ethereum was 100% pre-mined. They then sold about ~80% of the pre-mine to the public (and to themselves, with no known upper-bound on percentage of the self-sales) and pocketed the proceeds. After that they issued additional coins via mining to the public and diluted their positions but later substantially cut the supply of mining off when the price kept falling. The plan now is to soon eliminate the mining and award the coins that would have been mined to existing large position holders (parties with more than $20k worth of ethereum). When this transition is complete the issuance will be extremely similar to ripple's -- e.g. a huge amount created by the system's operator, a large portion sold by that operator to the public over time, and a portion given away as lotteries. The primary difference is that in ethereum the lottery part was conducted directly by the system through diluting the operators shares rather than being handed out in airdrops as Ripple did, and -- of course-- the relative amounts of these groups. Ripple has been a lot greedier about it. [1] Technically they'll never finish, because of the more recent plans to continue to award these massive pre-mine holders with additional coins in perpetuity in exchange for taking them out of circulation, they'll be able to largely preserve their position while continuing to dump on the public.

randunel 6y ago

> Who's "they". ETH Cofounders got to keep 10% of the premined pool; Ethereum Foundation also got 10% of the premined pool. I'd presume these are "they".

CryptoPunk 6y ago
When did ETH cofounders lie about the premine?

nadaviv 6y ago

lol, what? This is not how things work in Ethereum. The foundation has the authority to do anything it wants, despite the community's wishes. The DAO bailout hard fork showed that very well.

bhaak 6y ago
The Ethereum Classic community wants to have a word with you.
CryptoPunk 6y ago
The foundation has no authority over the protocol. It's purely a R&D grant issuer. The protocol is completely consensus based. The foundation doesn't even have its own full node client implementation. You're blatantly trying to deceive people.

nullc 6y ago

> Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crowdsale is well-documented by Ethereum-based information resources and there has been absolutely no effort to conceal or mislead about it. The founders and managers of Ethereum, who repeatability lie and claim that the premine was ~10% or that it wasn't substantially premined https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1208471215956013056 https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/120847121595601305...

CryptoPunk 6y ago
In that tweet Buterin claims that the stake of the founders, including the non-profit Ethereum Foundation, was 11%. They're defining "premine" in a way to exclude "crowdsale", which is perfectly reasonable. Buterin elaborates on that here: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1209094163658149888 https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/120909416365814988...
- nullc 6y ago
  It is absolutely unreasonable. Buterin is willingly committing fraud and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending it. He has a past history of fraud, so it's unsurprising-- it's less clear to me what you get out of it. A pre-mine doesn't stop being a pre-mine after you've sold it and lined your pockets with the proceeds. When they eventually finish[1] dumping the rest of their coins on misguided members of the public will the pre-mine be 0%? Obviously not. Moreover, the self same people made purchases in the "crowdsale" and then immediately paid those funds back to themselves. E.g. Hoskinson extracted a million dollars the day the presale closed. > the stake of the founders, including the non-profit Ethereum Foundation, was 11% Check your math because 12 million out of 72 million isn't 11%... nor does that include the additional funds 'purchased' in their share offerings (in scare-quotes because it's not really correct to call something a purchase when it was paid back). Ethereum was 100% pre-mined. They then sold about ~80% of the pre-mine to the public (and to themselves, with no known upper-bound on percentage of the self-sales) and pocketed the proceeds. After that they issued additional coins via mining to the public and diluted their positions but later substantially cut the supply of mining off when the price kept falling. The plan now is to soon eliminate the mining and award the coins that would have been mined to existing large position holders (parties with more than $20k worth of ethereum). When this transition is complete the issuance will be extremely similar to ripple's -- e.g. a huge amount created by the system's operator, a large portion sold by that operator to the public over time, and a portion given away as lotteries. The primary difference is that in ethereum the lottery part was conducted directly by the system through diluting the operators shares rather than being handed out in airdrops as Ripple did, and -- of course-- the relative amounts of these groups. Ripple has been a lot greedier about it. [1] Technically they'll never finish, because of the more recent plans to continue to award these massive pre-mine holders with additional coins in perpetuity in exchange for taking them out of circulation, they'll be able to largely preserve their position while continuing to dump on the public.