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In layperson terms with Bitcoin you can’t sue the network. With ripple you can. Bitcoin wasn’t sold by a company entity and xrp was.

by raiyu 6y ago

xorcist 6y ago
Then so was Ethereum, yet they seem to be off the hook. And they are also moving to a distribution model where the owners gets to mint and sell too. Thus far, it was said that it was sufficiently long ago for the initial distribution to not matter anymore. But all that is true for Ripple, too. Not to defend Ripple or any one else project, but a casual observer could be forgiven to suspect more things have happened behind the scenes than what is being communicated.
- doggosphere 6y ago
  When did ethereum offer tokens for sale?
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    2014
  - arthurcolle 6y ago
    In late 2013, with expected delivery December 2014. I was poor, in college, and turned $70 of Bitcoin during the presale into $40,000 of Ethereum when I sold in late 2017. Do I get to call myself an angel investor now? ;)
    - 1996 6y ago
      Not until you get at least one more zero
  - nullc 6y ago
    Ethereum's managers pre-mined 72 million coins, kept about 12 million to sell at later times, and sold many to the public (and also "sold" many to themselves personally, though we only know of the self-buys they chose to disclose-- the structure guarenteed more coins for insiders the more that they raised from the "public" so there was a big incentive for insiders to anonymously participate in the public sale). They forbid US persons from purchasing in their sale, which might be part of the reason the SEC never took action even though many people ignore the prohibition. You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, or multiple times reduced the issuance rate of mined coins to prop up the price as they sold their own premined positions might count against them, but apparently not.
    - CryptoPunk 6y ago
      >>You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crowdsale is well-documented by Ethereum-based information resources and there has been absolutely no effort to conceal or mislead about it. >> or multiple times reduced the issuance rate of mined coins to prop up the price as they sold their own premined positions might count against them You're conflating the community, which is the amorphous entity that has reduced the issuance rate, in accordance with a long-standing plan to adjust it to balance the need for security, and the need for token store-of-value functionality, and the Ethereum Foundation, which has no say in the hard forks that the community choose to support or not support.
      - randunel 6y ago
        > Who's "they". ETH Cofounders got to keep 10% of the premined pool; Ethereum Foundation also got 10% of the premined pool. I'd presume these are "they".
        CryptoPunk 6y ago
        When did ETH cofounders lie about the premine?
      - nadaviv 6y ago
        lol, what? This is not how things work in Ethereum. The foundation has the authority to do anything it wants, despite the community's wishes. The DAO bailout hard fork showed that very well.
        bhaak 6y ago
        The Ethereum Classic community wants to have a word with you.
        CryptoPunk 6y ago
        The foundation has no authority over the protocol. It's purely a R&D grant issuer. The protocol is completely consensus based. The foundation doesn't even have its own full node client implementation. You're blatantly trying to deceive people.
- jcfrei 6y ago
  Ethereum transferred their funds to a Swiss foundation (a "Stiftung") if I remember correctly. And they are not moving to a distribution model where they can mint ether. They can still finance their operations from the initial 12 million ethers credited to the foundation - of which about 460k remain (that's currently about $280 mio: https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e4... )
- raiyu 6y ago
  I’m not a lawyer by any stretch but i thinks the underlying asset needs you decline in value as well. This is definitely not a legal opinion.
  - dannyw 6y ago
    No, offering an unregistered security to the general public is illegal, even if you make them money.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  >>And they are also moving to a distribution model where the owners gets to mint and sell too. You're conflating the multitude of individual ETH owners, who now have the ability to stake ETH to get a right to become a validator and earn new ETH, with a singular entity in control of the vast majority of XRP.
- bouncycastle 6y ago
  Although, Ethereum's "genesis block" was mined using PoW. Miners and node operators had to generate the data for the Genesis Block by themselves by scraping the Bitcoin chain which contained the crowdsale transaction data. The Ethereum Foundation only provided a script for scraping the Bitcoin chain. See here: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/07/27/final-steps/ https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/07/27/final-steps/ (The genesis block contains all the ETH token allocations for each crowdsale account) Another technicality is that Ether was sold as a commodity, for the purpose of using it for "gas" to use for computational resources. Ripple on the other hand is not used for gas, you don't pay for computing resources. You only pay a tiny fee in XRP per transaction.

In layperson terms with Bitcoin you can’t sue the network. With ripple you can. Bitcoin wasn’t sold by a company entity and xrp was.

by raiyu 6y ago

In layperson terms with Bitcoin you can’t sue the network. With ripple you can. Bitcoin wasn’t sold by a company entity and xrp was.

xorcist 6y ago

Then so was Ethereum, yet they seem to be off the hook. And they are also moving to a distribution model where the owners gets to mint and sell too. Thus far, it was said that it was sufficiently long ago for the initial distribution to not matter anymore. But all that is true for Ripple, too. Not to defend Ripple or any one else project, but a casual observer could be forgiven to suspect more things have happened behind the scenes than what is being communicated.

doggosphere 6y ago
When did ethereum offer tokens for sale?
- mythrwy 6y ago
  2014
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  In late 2013, with expected delivery December 2014. I was poor, in college, and turned $70 of Bitcoin during the presale into $40,000 of Ethereum when I sold in late 2017. Do I get to call myself an angel investor now? ;)
  - 1996 6y ago
    Not until you get at least one more zero
- nullc 6y ago
  Ethereum's managers pre-mined 72 million coins, kept about 12 million to sell at later times, and sold many to the public (and also "sold" many to themselves personally, though we only know of the self-buys they chose to disclose-- the structure guarenteed more coins for insiders the more that they raised from the "public" so there was a big incentive for insiders to anonymously participate in the public sale). They forbid US persons from purchasing in their sale, which might be part of the reason the SEC never took action even though many people ignore the prohibition. You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, or multiple times reduced the issuance rate of mined coins to prop up the price as they sold their own premined positions might count against them, but apparently not.
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    >>You might assume that fact that they've subsequently lied and dissembled about the massive premine, Who's "they". No one has lied about the premine. The crowdsale is well-documented by Ethereum-based information resources and there has been absolutely no effort to conceal or mislead about it. >> or multiple times reduced the issuance rate of mined coins to prop up the price as they sold their own premined positions might count against them You're conflating the community, which is the amorphous entity that has reduced the issuance rate, in accordance with a long-standing plan to adjust it to balance the need for security, and the need for token store-of-value functionality, and the Ethereum Foundation, which has no say in the hard forks that the community choose to support or not support.
    - randunel 6y ago
      > Who's "they". ETH Cofounders got to keep 10% of the premined pool; Ethereum Foundation also got 10% of the premined pool. I'd presume these are "they".
      - CryptoPunk 6y ago
        When did ETH cofounders lie about the premine?
    - nadaviv 6y ago
      lol, what? This is not how things work in Ethereum. The foundation has the authority to do anything it wants, despite the community's wishes. The DAO bailout hard fork showed that very well.
      - bhaak 6y ago
        The Ethereum Classic community wants to have a word with you.
      - CryptoPunk 6y ago
        The foundation has no authority over the protocol. It's purely a R&D grant issuer. The protocol is completely consensus based. The foundation doesn't even have its own full node client implementation. You're blatantly trying to deceive people.
jcfrei 6y ago
Ethereum transferred their funds to a Swiss foundation (a "Stiftung") if I remember correctly. And they are not moving to a distribution model where they can mint ether. They can still finance their operations from the initial 12 million ethers credited to the foundation - of which about 460k remain (that's currently about $280 mio: https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e4... )
raiyu 6y ago
I’m not a lawyer by any stretch but i thinks the underlying asset needs you decline in value as well. This is definitely not a legal opinion.
- dannyw 6y ago
  No, offering an unregistered security to the general public is illegal, even if you make them money.
CryptoPunk 6y ago
>>And they are also moving to a distribution model where the owners gets to mint and sell too. You're conflating the multitude of individual ETH owners, who now have the ability to stake ETH to get a right to become a validator and earn new ETH, with a singular entity in control of the vast majority of XRP.
bouncycastle 6y ago
Although, Ethereum's "genesis block" was mined using PoW. Miners and node operators had to generate the data for the Genesis Block by themselves by scraping the Bitcoin chain which contained the crowdsale transaction data. The Ethereum Foundation only provided a script for scraping the Bitcoin chain. See here: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/07/27/final-steps/ https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/07/27/final-steps/ (The genesis block contains all the ETH token allocations for each crowdsale account) Another technicality is that Ether was sold as a commodity, for the purpose of using it for "gas" to use for computational resources. Ripple on the other hand is not used for gas, you don't pay for computing resources. You only pay a tiny fee in XRP per transaction.