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The numbers are inflated by including "detained" journalists and by using a loose definition of journalist. The "detained journalists" include journalists caug

The numbers are inflated by including "detained" journalists and by using a loose definition of journalist. The "detained journalists" include journalists caught in a group of protestors being "kettled" and were later released once the group of people were safely under control. It wasn't like the cops were targeting all the "detained journalists". It also seemed they included anyone calling themselves a journalist. I couldn't even find any sort of presence of some of them.

SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
Wasn’t there a thing where the police arrested press on national tv, with badges and everything? Didn’t a photographer for the news have their eye shot out by police? Who can trust any claims that they aren’t targeting journalists to arrest given this?
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  Yes there was "a thing where the police arrested press on national tv". That does nothing to change the fact the "Freedom of the Press Foundation" inflates their "arrest" numbers by including journalists being caught up in "kettles" for a short time and released once they got around to checking for press. It is all in their data. They don't even try to hide it and do not see it as disingenuous to include them as arrested or detained.
- manfredo 6y ago
  Several journalists violated dispersal orders and curfews, and were subsequently arrested and their arrests were recorded. But the police were also arresting non-journalists violating the curfews. There's zero indication that police were targeting journalists. In fact, the opposite many journalists were released hours after being arrested. Contrary to what seems to be common belief, being a journalists does not confer any special rights or exemptions
  - SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
    There is in fact indication that journalists have at least been targeted in Portland according to an ACLU case, which results in a judge putting a restraining order on the police. I’m not a law person, so if you know better on the nuances please educate me on the matter but this legal judgement implies to me that journalists do have some special status and that it is is inappropriate to target them for arrests.
    - manfredo 6y ago
      It's a violation of civil liberties for the police to unjustly target anyone. If the police for some reason didn't like a certain hairdresser and targeted him or her, then the same protections would kick in.
- newacct583 6y ago
  Josie Huang in LA (KPCC, NPR) was tackled and arrested while screaming "I'm a journalist" and wearing her press badge, yeah. It wasn't on national TV, it was captured by someone else (the "amateur" press that people think shouldn't be covered) with a phone. See: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/josie-huang-reporter-arrest-los-angeles-sheriff https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/josie-...
  - manfredo 6y ago
    For context, more than 3,000 were arrested in LA county during the period of unrest last summer: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/george-floyd-protests-los-angeles-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/george-floyd... Pointing to individual instances of reporters being arrested obscures the broader picture: level of unrest unprecedented in decades promoted curfews which many disregarded and were subsequently arrested. A slim minority of those were journalists. To put this in perspective, 117 people categorize as journalists (the majority were self employed) were arrested in 2020 as per an earlier HN post [1]. Contrast this to 3,000 total arrests in LA county alone. And that figure for LA is from early June. As I pointed out, journalist arrests are disproportionately concentrated in areas that saw widespread rioting [2]. The idea that police in the US are targeting journalists is unsubstantiated. Journalists are putting themselves in positions in which any normal person would be arrested, and the police are treating them like any normal person. 1. https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434409
    - newacct583 6y ago
      > Journalists are putting themselves in positions in which any normal person would be arrested, and the police are treating them like any normal person. Which is exactly why we expect journalists to have special protection, and thus why we track violations of these norms. And things are clearly getting worse. The point isn't to find an excuse for the police here, it's to recognize that a problem exists and find a solution.
newacct583 6y ago
> The numbers are inflated by including "detained" journalists and by using a loose definition of journalist. It's rather the opposite. Arguments like yours are intended to deliberately question numbers that have always been computed like this. Not all journalists are formally credentialed, in fact most of the best footage of the summer protests was captured by amateur press with their phones. The lines aren't ambiguous: if you call yourself a journalist, don't take part in a protest, and make a reasonable attempt to label yourself as press, then you are press. And that's a good thing for all of us. Note that lots of the footage of vandalism that made the rounds in right wing circles was also captured by amateurs (c.f. Andy Ngo, who while a very polarizing figure did a lot of highly consumed press work with nothing but a phone and a twitter account).
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  If they cannot be truthful as to detainment of journalists, how can I trust they are not padding journalists as well? I would expect their criteria to exclude the "don't take part in a protest" considering being caught up in a "kettle" is "detainment" even though journalists were released because they identified as journalists.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
The right to a free press is universal, all that is required to be a journalist is to cover events to other people.
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  If you are participating in said events, you are no longer a journalist. The blatant dishonesty of calling detainments arrests and including getting caught up in a "kettle" because they were in the crowd as detainment leads me to believe they would also include participants calling themselves journalists in the list. Why should "journalists" participating in the event receive any special treatment? It should be expected they be treated as any other participant.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >It should be expected they be treated as any other participant. There's another way to reach this goal without arresting journalists.

SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago

Wasn’t there a thing where the police arrested press on national tv, with badges and everything? Didn’t a photographer for the news have their eye shot out by police? Who can trust any claims that they aren’t targeting journalists to arrest given this?

meragrin_ 6y ago
Yes there was "a thing where the police arrested press on national tv". That does nothing to change the fact the "Freedom of the Press Foundation" inflates their "arrest" numbers by including journalists being caught up in "kettles" for a short time and released once they got around to checking for press. It is all in their data. They don't even try to hide it and do not see it as disingenuous to include them as arrested or detained.
manfredo 6y ago
Several journalists violated dispersal orders and curfews, and were subsequently arrested and their arrests were recorded. But the police were also arresting non-journalists violating the curfews. There's zero indication that police were targeting journalists. In fact, the opposite many journalists were released hours after being arrested. Contrary to what seems to be common belief, being a journalists does not confer any special rights or exemptions
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
  There is in fact indication that journalists have at least been targeted in Portland according to an ACLU case, which results in a judge putting a restraining order on the police. I’m not a law person, so if you know better on the nuances please educate me on the matter but this legal judgement implies to me that journalists do have some special status and that it is is inappropriate to target them for arrests.
  - manfredo 6y ago
    It's a violation of civil liberties for the police to unjustly target anyone. If the police for some reason didn't like a certain hairdresser and targeted him or her, then the same protections would kick in.
newacct583 6y ago
Josie Huang in LA (KPCC, NPR) was tackled and arrested while screaming "I'm a journalist" and wearing her press badge, yeah. It wasn't on national TV, it was captured by someone else (the "amateur" press that people think shouldn't be covered) with a phone. See: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/josie-huang-reporter-arrest-los-angeles-sheriff https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/josie-...
- manfredo 6y ago
  For context, more than 3,000 were arrested in LA county during the period of unrest last summer: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/george-floyd-protests-los-angeles-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/george-floyd... Pointing to individual instances of reporters being arrested obscures the broader picture: level of unrest unprecedented in decades promoted curfews which many disregarded and were subsequently arrested. A slim minority of those were journalists. To put this in perspective, 117 people categorize as journalists (the majority were self employed) were arrested in 2020 as per an earlier HN post [1]. Contrast this to 3,000 total arrests in LA county alone. And that figure for LA is from early June. As I pointed out, journalist arrests are disproportionately concentrated in areas that saw widespread rioting [2]. The idea that police in the US are targeting journalists is unsubstantiated. Journalists are putting themselves in positions in which any normal person would be arrested, and the police are treating them like any normal person. 1. https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25434409
  - newacct583 6y ago
    > Journalists are putting themselves in positions in which any normal person would be arrested, and the police are treating them like any normal person. Which is exactly why we expect journalists to have special protection, and thus why we track violations of these norms. And things are clearly getting worse. The point isn't to find an excuse for the police here, it's to recognize that a problem exists and find a solution.

newacct583 6y ago

> The numbers are inflated by including "detained" journalists and by using a loose definition of journalist. It's rather the opposite. Arguments like yours are intended to deliberately question numbers that have always been computed like this. Not all journalists are formally credentialed, in fact most of the best footage of the summer protests was captured by amateur press with their phones. The lines aren't ambiguous: if you call yourself a journalist, don't take part in a protest, and make a reasonable attempt to label yourself as press, then you are press. And that's a good thing for all of us. Note that lots of the footage of vandalism that made the rounds in right wing circles was also captured by amateurs (c.f. Andy Ngo, who while a very polarizing figure did a lot of highly consumed press work with nothing but a phone and a twitter account).

meragrin_ 6y ago
If they cannot be truthful as to detainment of journalists, how can I trust they are not padding journalists as well? I would expect their criteria to exclude the "don't take part in a protest" considering being caught up in a "kettle" is "detainment" even though journalists were released because they identified as journalists.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

The right to a free press is universal, all that is required to be a journalist is to cover events to other people.

meragrin_ 6y ago
If you are participating in said events, you are no longer a journalist. The blatant dishonesty of calling detainments arrests and including getting caught up in a "kettle" because they were in the crowd as detainment leads me to believe they would also include participants calling themselves journalists in the list. Why should "journalists" participating in the event receive any special treatment? It should be expected they be treated as any other participant.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >It should be expected they be treated as any other participant. There's another way to reach this goal without arresting journalists.