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libc is the only stable system api, on non Linux system you don't have a choice to use anything else. Go tried, and went back to linking to libc, because of co

libc is the only stable system api, on non Linux system you don't have a choice to use anything else. Go tried, and went back to linking to libc, because of constant syscall changes. So I don't view having libc a dependency, it'd be like saying that macOS is a dependency. You can also use musl on Linux with V for 100% static binaries.

zaarn 6y ago
libc is not stable, glibc breaks plenty of times (try running some real old software without relinking glibc). The only stable system API is the linux kernel syscalls. Those basically don't break.
- vlovich123 6y ago
  That’s true for Linux and why Go thought they could do this everywhere. It turns out that libc is the only stable interface for a lot of platforms (notably MacOS and many other BSDs if not all).
  - zaarn 6y ago
    Correct, on Windows there is no stable syscall interface, same for BSD. Hence you're supposed to link things. But Linux syscall interface is stable and libc is definitely not stable.
- edflsafoiewq 6y ago
  What has glibc broken?
  - cle 6y ago
    Here is a tracker for backwards-incompatible changes to glibc: https://abi-laboratory.pro/?view=timeline&l=glibc https://abi-laboratory.pro/?view=timeline&l=glibc
uryga 6y ago
didn't mean to argue, just providing context for people scrolling through the comments :) i agree that it's a bit nitpicky. (but "depends only on libc" would probably be a better phrasing)
- ofrzeta 6y ago
  Sure is nitpicky. When I see some open source software I certainly never see libc mentioned as a dependency. It's just assumed that it is there as part of the OS which it basically is.
mst 6y ago
"I don't view this dependency as a dependency" is ... ok, you can redefine things if you're clear about that, but given you've also argued that "printing to stdout doesn't make a function impure" I think perhaps a glossary of terms that V uses differently would be helpful to understand your claims. I'd also note that given you then banned her from the issue tracker after that post went up rather than discussing it, your claims of bias on her part seem a trifle strange.
deleted 6y ago
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saagarjha 6y ago
But the example was run on Linux.
benibela 6y ago
FreePascal works without libc

zaarn 6y ago

libc is not stable, glibc breaks plenty of times (try running some real old software without relinking glibc). The only stable system API is the linux kernel syscalls. Those basically don't break.

vlovich123 6y ago
That’s true for Linux and why Go thought they could do this everywhere. It turns out that libc is the only stable interface for a lot of platforms (notably MacOS and many other BSDs if not all).
- zaarn 6y ago
  Correct, on Windows there is no stable syscall interface, same for BSD. Hence you're supposed to link things. But Linux syscall interface is stable and libc is definitely not stable.
edflsafoiewq 6y ago
What has glibc broken?
- cle 6y ago
  Here is a tracker for backwards-incompatible changes to glibc: https://abi-laboratory.pro/?view=timeline&l=glibc https://abi-laboratory.pro/?view=timeline&l=glibc

uryga 6y ago

didn't mean to argue, just providing context for people scrolling through the comments :) i agree that it's a bit nitpicky. (but "depends only on libc" would probably be a better phrasing)

ofrzeta 6y ago
Sure is nitpicky. When I see some open source software I certainly never see libc mentioned as a dependency. It's just assumed that it is there as part of the OS which it basically is.

mst 6y ago

"I don't view this dependency as a dependency" is ... ok, you can redefine things if you're clear about that, but given you've also argued that "printing to stdout doesn't make a function impure" I think perhaps a glossary of terms that V uses differently would be helpful to understand your claims. I'd also note that given you then banned her from the issue tracker after that post went up rather than discussing it, your claims of bias on her part seem a trifle strange.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

saagarjha 6y ago

But the example was run on Linux.

benibela 6y ago

FreePascal works without libc