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FYI: I collect a best of crypto quotes over at open blockchains, see https://github.com/openblockchains/crypto-quotes https://github.com/openblockchains/crypto-

FYI: I collect a best of crypto quotes over at open blockchains, see https://github.com/openblockchains/crypto-quotes https://github.com/openblockchains/crypto-quotes To quote Nouriel Roubini, Economist: No use ever, past, present and future for XRP and Ripple products... it is already flopping after spending a fortune and printing a huge amount of totally useless XRP. (Now the XRP army of Twitter trolls, bots, hired guns and zealots will attack again...)

bravura 6y ago
I think the best quote was from Matt Levine in his "Money Stuff" Bloomberg column. I can't find it right now but it was essentially he was talking about paper key practices and said: "Imagine you go into a room of computer scientists and say: 'I've developed the most secure form of money possible, it's so secure you can't keep it on your computer and you have to dig a hole in your backyard and keep it there' you'd be laughed out of the room."
- salty_biscuits 6y ago
  Umm, this is sort of what Turing, arguably the father of computer science, actually did once (allegedly) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-markets-saft/saft-on-wealth-learning-from-turings-silver-hoard-idUSKCN0UY2OC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-markets-saft/saft-on-weal...
- lupire 6y ago
  Easier than digging a hole in my backyard for a $million in cash.
  - chihuahua 6y ago
    That's probably true. Cash becomes very unwieldy in large amounts. In part this is intentional to make it more difficult to carry $millions across borders undetected. It's not a coincidence that US$ in excess of $20 denomination is rare. In Europe, there's the E500 bill, which is a bit more practical for large amounts, and some have expressed a desire to withdraw it from circulation for this reason.
    - alasdair_ 6y ago
      The 500EUR bill exists because Germans want it to exist. Historically Germans have been adverse to things like credit cards and other third-party financial records, largely because of the whole Nazi state thing.
      - rswail 6y ago
        It's more related to the superinflation during the Weimar period than the Nazi state. The Nazi's rise can be directly correlated (if not caused) by the inflation. That's why the Bundesbank have always been inflation hawks and had to be convinced that the Euro would remain similar in focus to the Deutschmark. Whether that is still true after 2008 is an interesting question :)
        throwaway-8c93 6y ago
        The rise Nazi is more a result of the sweeping austerity program Brüning's administration embarked on at the onset of the Great Depression. The hyperinflation episode took place in 1922-1923, Nazi's took power in 1933. It's a bit like blaming Bill Clinton for the slow 2010s recovery. The scale of the cutback that Brüning enacted from 1930 to 1932 is truly staggering. The authors estimate that Brüning cut German government spending by about 15 percent, after inflation, from 1930 to 1932. He raised income taxes on high earners by an average of 10 percent, and slashed unemployment, pension, and welfare benefits. The economic consequences were horrific. GDP fell by 15 percent, as did government revenue. Unemployment increased from 22.7 percent to 43.8 percent. Brüning came to be known as the “Hunger Chancellor.”
        morelisp 6y ago
        I don't understand the connection. Surely inflation hawks would want generally smaller bills? But even then only the stupidest among them would also think this could be achieved via printing specific denominations rather than interest rate and other real fiscal policy. My understanding as an expat was the same as alasdair's - 2010-2015 I saw plenty of Germans drop a couple 500s to pay for hotel stays, major appliances, etc. Few people had a credit card and those that did didn't want to use it domestically. It's changing now but people still carry more cash and true credit card payments are still often impossible even as bank cards are now more common. I guess you could argue this is also related to Weimar inflation, but I don't think it's so specific. Germany has seen multiple major regime changes in the space of one lifetime.
  - alfiedotwtf 6y ago
    Depends where you live... in Asia in the 17/1800s, people literally buried gold and silver in their backyards
- psanford 6y ago
  Here you go: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-08-23/blockchain-mania-and-mifid-ii https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-08-23/blockc...
sebmellen 6y ago
I had the honor of meeting Nouriel at the World Economic Forum, at an event held by CV VC (a Swiss blockchain/crypto-focused VC which also invested in my startup). He gave a scathing talk criticizing cryptocurrencies and blockchains and all other things in the space. I shook his hand afterwards and told him that while I disagreed with some of his opinions, I really respected his conviction to give a talk to a room full of "crypto zealots" and stick to his opinions. A very kind fellow in conversation, but he sure knows how to deliver bitter critique.
- thelastwave 6y ago
  Watched Nouriel absolutely destroy Joe Lubin in a debate at Lubin's conference, in front of hundreds of Eth (and presumably Lubin) supporters, who by the end had no doubts who won. And yes, quite a nice guy in private conversation.
duxup 6y ago
Crypto currency n general seems like a great way to learn about and understand why we have the financial rules for so many other things that we do.
- ucm_edge 6y ago
  I like how after every big Crypto scandal you see calls for "Well we should have X to prevent this from happening", and X is something virtually identical to a regulation/monetary policy put in place after some banking scandal or panic. History repeated itself on an accelerated scale thanks to the internet.
- baby 6y ago
  I think the other observation is that money schemes have became so huge and out of control that they are now legal and regulated. We wouldn’t have had the stock market otherwise.
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Became? Money were always printed.
    - garmaine 6y ago
      Money wasn’t always printed.
- apta 6y ago
  Except when it comes to gov't controlled inflation.
  - Yizahi 6y ago
    I prefer government controlled inflation to the inflation controlled by Giancarlo Devacini, who prints Tethers in billions with zero public control.
anm89 6y ago
Yeah good thing you stayed out of this no use crypto currencies stuff for the last five years, you would have lost a fortune, because well, it has no use and nobody wants it. Roubini sure called that one.
- xapata 6y ago
  Market can stay irrational, yadda yadda.
  - anm89 6y ago
    Sure, make that argument after it's down over a 2 or 3 year period. Not before
    - xapata 6y ago
      You pointed to the duration of the bull run, I spoke of the general principle that bubbles can persist for quite some time. Why do we need to observe the (predicted) bubble's pop before agreeing that bubbles have varying timelines? This statement could be removed from the Bitcoin context and still make sense.

bravura 6y ago

I think the best quote was from Matt Levine in his "Money Stuff" Bloomberg column. I can't find it right now but it was essentially he was talking about paper key practices and said: "Imagine you go into a room of computer scientists and say: 'I've developed the most secure form of money possible, it's so secure you can't keep it on your computer and you have to dig a hole in your backyard and keep it there' you'd be laughed out of the room."

salty_biscuits 6y ago
Umm, this is sort of what Turing, arguably the father of computer science, actually did once (allegedly) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-markets-saft/saft-on-wealth-learning-from-turings-silver-hoard-idUSKCN0UY2OC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-markets-saft/saft-on-weal...
lupire 6y ago
Easier than digging a hole in my backyard for a $million in cash.
- chihuahua 6y ago
  That's probably true. Cash becomes very unwieldy in large amounts. In part this is intentional to make it more difficult to carry $millions across borders undetected. It's not a coincidence that US$ in excess of $20 denomination is rare. In Europe, there's the E500 bill, which is a bit more practical for large amounts, and some have expressed a desire to withdraw it from circulation for this reason.
  - alasdair_ 6y ago
    The 500EUR bill exists because Germans want it to exist. Historically Germans have been adverse to things like credit cards and other third-party financial records, largely because of the whole Nazi state thing.
    - rswail 6y ago
      It's more related to the superinflation during the Weimar period than the Nazi state. The Nazi's rise can be directly correlated (if not caused) by the inflation. That's why the Bundesbank have always been inflation hawks and had to be convinced that the Euro would remain similar in focus to the Deutschmark. Whether that is still true after 2008 is an interesting question :)
      - throwaway-8c93 6y ago
        The rise Nazi is more a result of the sweeping austerity program Brüning's administration embarked on at the onset of the Great Depression. The hyperinflation episode took place in 1922-1923, Nazi's took power in 1933. It's a bit like blaming Bill Clinton for the slow 2010s recovery. The scale of the cutback that Brüning enacted from 1930 to 1932 is truly staggering. The authors estimate that Brüning cut German government spending by about 15 percent, after inflation, from 1930 to 1932. He raised income taxes on high earners by an average of 10 percent, and slashed unemployment, pension, and welfare benefits. The economic consequences were horrific. GDP fell by 15 percent, as did government revenue. Unemployment increased from 22.7 percent to 43.8 percent. Brüning came to be known as the “Hunger Chancellor.”
      - morelisp 6y ago
        I don't understand the connection. Surely inflation hawks would want generally smaller bills? But even then only the stupidest among them would also think this could be achieved via printing specific denominations rather than interest rate and other real fiscal policy. My understanding as an expat was the same as alasdair's - 2010-2015 I saw plenty of Germans drop a couple 500s to pay for hotel stays, major appliances, etc. Few people had a credit card and those that did didn't want to use it domestically. It's changing now but people still carry more cash and true credit card payments are still often impossible even as bank cards are now more common. I guess you could argue this is also related to Weimar inflation, but I don't think it's so specific. Germany has seen multiple major regime changes in the space of one lifetime.
- alfiedotwtf 6y ago
  Depends where you live... in Asia in the 17/1800s, people literally buried gold and silver in their backyards
psanford 6y ago
Here you go: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-08-23/blockchain-mania-and-mifid-ii https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-08-23/blockc...

sebmellen 6y ago

I had the honor of meeting Nouriel at the World Economic Forum, at an event held by CV VC (a Swiss blockchain/crypto-focused VC which also invested in my startup). He gave a scathing talk criticizing cryptocurrencies and blockchains and all other things in the space. I shook his hand afterwards and told him that while I disagreed with some of his opinions, I really respected his conviction to give a talk to a room full of "crypto zealots" and stick to his opinions. A very kind fellow in conversation, but he sure knows how to deliver bitter critique.

thelastwave 6y ago
Watched Nouriel absolutely destroy Joe Lubin in a debate at Lubin's conference, in front of hundreds of Eth (and presumably Lubin) supporters, who by the end had no doubts who won. And yes, quite a nice guy in private conversation.

duxup 6y ago

Crypto currency n general seems like a great way to learn about and understand why we have the financial rules for so many other things that we do.

ucm_edge 6y ago
I like how after every big Crypto scandal you see calls for "Well we should have X to prevent this from happening", and X is something virtually identical to a regulation/monetary policy put in place after some banking scandal or panic. History repeated itself on an accelerated scale thanks to the internet.
baby 6y ago
I think the other observation is that money schemes have became so huge and out of control that they are now legal and regulated. We wouldn’t have had the stock market otherwise.
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  Became? Money were always printed.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Money wasn’t always printed.
apta 6y ago
Except when it comes to gov't controlled inflation.
- Yizahi 6y ago
  I prefer government controlled inflation to the inflation controlled by Giancarlo Devacini, who prints Tethers in billions with zero public control.

anm89 6y ago

Yeah good thing you stayed out of this no use crypto currencies stuff for the last five years, you would have lost a fortune, because well, it has no use and nobody wants it. Roubini sure called that one.

xapata 6y ago
Market can stay irrational, yadda yadda.
- anm89 6y ago
  Sure, make that argument after it's down over a 2 or 3 year period. Not before
  - xapata 6y ago
    You pointed to the duration of the bull run, I spoke of the general principle that bubbles can persist for quite some time. Why do we need to observe the (predicted) bubble's pop before agreeing that bubbles have varying timelines? This statement could be removed from the Bitcoin context and still make sense.