5 ms·

Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, th

by Glench 6y ago

Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? 2. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that the product that he created, while popular and financially successful, is a junk food that has a significant impact on the health of adults and children worldwide. We should evaluate "success" holistically, not just financially or else we miss the downstream effects of our decisions. This blindness is the same mindset that has caused climate change. That said, it's wonderful to see someone lifted out of poverty. I hope millions more have the same chance.

zpeti 6y ago
It’s sad to see that in the last 10 years this type of comment (tries to) ruin every single inspirational story. Just because there’s shit in the world doesn’t mean there isn’t beauty and greatness and awesomeness sometimes. In fact that’s what makes it wonderful. If you’re bitter and all you see is the shit, and resent any inspirational story, well, good luck to you but I definitely don’t think you’ll have a productive, or inspirational life.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Seconded. Yeah sure it's a junk food but it's not like he invented Opium or explosives or something. Give the guy a break!
- borepop 6y ago
  I don't think the person to whom you're responding was trying to "ruin" anything, they were just pointing out a complicating fact that is objectively true, which is that Frito Lay is in the business of selling junk food. The inspirational part and the problematic part are both real things, and acknowledging one doesn't mean the other is unimportant.
  - Glench 6y ago
    wonderfully said, thank you!
- Glench 6y ago
  Ooh! I'm happy to supply a feel-good story that is (as far as I can tell), unreservedly good: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200915-the-himalayan-invention-powered-by-pine-needles https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200915-the-himalayan-in... "The Himalayan invention powered by pine needles" TLDR: man and wife move to poor rural region of Indian, see wild fire problem caused by pine needles, invent a machine that turns pine needles into electricity and cooking fuel, employ villagers to pick up pine needles, deploy it to dozens of villages with help of the government and village entrepreneurs. A success story that lifts people out of poverty with well-paying work, renewable electricity, and cooking fuel while cleaning up the environment in a scalable, decentralized, locally-suited way. Incredibly inspiring.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the villages that have now "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? 2. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that the product that he created, while popular and financially successful, is still used in the same settings charcoal is. And while carbonized briquettes produce less emissions that charcoal, there are still a non-negligible amount of particulates generated. By introducing a new source of this type of fuel he could be creating a local maxima that's still far from ideal. Additionally what are the effects of the type of repetitive labor these people are up to? That said, it's wonderful to see someone lifted out of poverty. I hope millions more have the same chance. (Do you get why some people are pushing back on your comment above? You can come up with this kind of stuff for anything. You can't eat an apple today without possibly furthering child labor, our world is too complex to try and turn every feel good story into a dig for downsides, because they will always exist. It is in no way "important" to do suss them out. And it's fine to discuss them, but you don't need to make it a reaction to the feel good story, you're allowed to just discuss these topics independently of the story)
    - phone8675309 6y ago
      Is this the "the world is hard, best to not try and let our corporate masters think for us" post that's in every thread on HN? A story can have good parts and bad parts. It does not make you a bad person to like the good parts. It does not make you a bad person to pick out the bad parts. It does make you a bad person to take a dump on someone's comment to "own" them.
tomcam 6y ago
> For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? Nothing stopping you from writing their stories. Glad you’re showing such a vigorous interest in them. Let me know when you start posting!
14u2c 6y ago
> Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important Perhaps because those items are either obvious or add nothing to the conversation.
dcolkitt 6y ago
> For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? I think you're overlooking the miracle of capitalism. If it was just about one guy striking it rich, this would be no different than the story of someone winning the lottery or getting a big inheritance from a distant relative. Instead this is the story of a man who worked hard, studied the market, took risks, and most importantly stayed 100% focused on the mission of delighting the customer. And the result was the creation of a product that improved the lives of millions. This isn't just the story of Richard Montanez. It's the story of every Korean immigrant who opened a convenience store in an underserved neighborhood. Or the ambitious teen starting a landscaping service. Or the local property taking a gamble to build new housing in a fast growing. Or anyone starting a new restaurant, fashion line, or hotel. Or Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak founding Apple in their garage. Or Henry Ford building a car for the middle-class. All of those improvements slowly but surely accumulate over time. The fortune Montanez accumulated is incredible. But we know his personal wealth is just the tip of the iceberg. Underneath it is a a vastly greater amount of wealth that was generated in the form of consumer and investor surplus. Because the reality is that your great-grandparents almost assuredly lived in a one-room house. And you almost assuredly do not. And almost none of us hustled our way out. Instead we just sat back, and enjoyed a constant stream of endlessly improving products- cheaper, faster, higher quality, more abundant. All powered by singularly-minded people relentlessly focused on delighting the customer. And living standards continue to rise, while global poverty continues to march towards zero That's the true miracle of capitalism.
- mempko 6y ago
  Before capitalism you had Cinderella stories. It's no miracle that inequality is as bad now as then.
  - dcolkitt 6y ago
    The percent of the world's population living in absolute poverty has fallen from 94% in 1820 to less than 10% today.[1] That's the greatest miracle in human history. [1] https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1086662632587907072 https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1086662632587907072
mekoka 6y ago
> We should evaluate "success" holistically, not just financially or else we miss the downstream effects of our decisions. This blindness is the same mindset that has caused climate change. Your comment is guilty of the very sin that it's pointing at. It may be myopic (or blind as you qualified it) to try to frame success, but unless you have some special kind of sight that allows you to evaluate it yourself across time and space, the alternative you suggest, that hypothetical holistic grand evaluation, is itself a pointless exercise. No one knows the future. No one knows what's ultimately "good" or "bad". The same people who keep thinking that they do are also the ones who operate under at least one of three illusions: (1) that something is wrong with the world, (2) that it's fixable and (3) that they know how to fix it. As Oppenheimer once said, it is perfectly obvious that the whole world is going to hell. The only possible chance that it might not is that we do not attempt to prevent it from doing so.

by Glench 6y ago

zpeti 6y ago

It’s sad to see that in the last 10 years this type of comment (tries to) ruin every single inspirational story. Just because there’s shit in the world doesn’t mean there isn’t beauty and greatness and awesomeness sometimes. In fact that’s what makes it wonderful. If you’re bitter and all you see is the shit, and resent any inspirational story, well, good luck to you but I definitely don’t think you’ll have a productive, or inspirational life.

jonplackett 6y ago
Seconded. Yeah sure it's a junk food but it's not like he invented Opium or explosives or something. Give the guy a break!
borepop 6y ago
I don't think the person to whom you're responding was trying to "ruin" anything, they were just pointing out a complicating fact that is objectively true, which is that Frito Lay is in the business of selling junk food. The inspirational part and the problematic part are both real things, and acknowledging one doesn't mean the other is unimportant.
- Glench 6y ago
  wonderfully said, thank you!
Glench 6y ago
Ooh! I'm happy to supply a feel-good story that is (as far as I can tell), unreservedly good: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200915-the-himalayan-invention-powered-by-pine-needles https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200915-the-himalayan-in... "The Himalayan invention powered by pine needles" TLDR: man and wife move to poor rural region of Indian, see wild fire problem caused by pine needles, invent a machine that turns pine needles into electricity and cooking fuel, employ villagers to pick up pine needles, deploy it to dozens of villages with help of the government and village entrepreneurs. A success story that lifts people out of poverty with well-paying work, renewable electricity, and cooking fuel while cleaning up the environment in a scalable, decentralized, locally-suited way. Incredibly inspiring.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the villages that have now "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? 2. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that the product that he created, while popular and financially successful, is still used in the same settings charcoal is. And while carbonized briquettes produce less emissions that charcoal, there are still a non-negligible amount of particulates generated. By introducing a new source of this type of fuel he could be creating a local maxima that's still far from ideal. Additionally what are the effects of the type of repetitive labor these people are up to? That said, it's wonderful to see someone lifted out of poverty. I hope millions more have the same chance. (Do you get why some people are pushing back on your comment above? You can come up with this kind of stuff for anything. You can't eat an apple today without possibly furthering child labor, our world is too complex to try and turn every feel good story into a dig for downsides, because they will always exist. It is in no way "important" to do suss them out. And it's fine to discuss them, but you don't need to make it a reaction to the feel good story, you're allowed to just discuss these topics independently of the story)
  - phone8675309 6y ago
    Is this the "the world is hard, best to not try and let our corporate masters think for us" post that's in every thread on HN? A story can have good parts and bad parts. It does not make you a bad person to like the good parts. It does not make you a bad person to pick out the bad parts. It does make you a bad person to take a dump on someone's comment to "own" them.

tomcam 6y ago

> For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? Nothing stopping you from writing their stories. Glad you’re showing such a vigorous interest in them. Let me know when you start posting!

14u2c 6y ago

> Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important Perhaps because those items are either obvious or add nothing to the conversation.

dcolkitt 6y ago

> For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? I think you're overlooking the miracle of capitalism. If it was just about one guy striking it rich, this would be no different than the story of someone winning the lottery or getting a big inheritance from a distant relative. Instead this is the story of a man who worked hard, studied the market, took risks, and most importantly stayed 100% focused on the mission of delighting the customer. And the result was the creation of a product that improved the lives of millions. This isn't just the story of Richard Montanez. It's the story of every Korean immigrant who opened a convenience store in an underserved neighborhood. Or the ambitious teen starting a landscaping service. Or the local property taking a gamble to build new housing in a fast growing. Or anyone starting a new restaurant, fashion line, or hotel. Or Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak founding Apple in their garage. Or Henry Ford building a car for the middle-class. All of those improvements slowly but surely accumulate over time. The fortune Montanez accumulated is incredible. But we know his personal wealth is just the tip of the iceberg. Underneath it is a a vastly greater amount of wealth that was generated in the form of consumer and investor surplus. Because the reality is that your great-grandparents almost assuredly lived in a one-room house. And you almost assuredly do not. And almost none of us hustled our way out. Instead we just sat back, and enjoyed a constant stream of endlessly improving products- cheaper, faster, higher quality, more abundant. All powered by singularly-minded people relentlessly focused on delighting the customer. And living standards continue to rise, while global poverty continues to march towards zero That's the true miracle of capitalism.

mempko 6y ago
Before capitalism you had Cinderella stories. It's no miracle that inequality is as bad now as then.
- dcolkitt 6y ago
  The percent of the world's population living in absolute poverty has fallen from 94% in 1820 to less than 10% today.[1] That's the greatest miracle in human history. [1] https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1086662632587907072 https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1086662632587907072

mekoka 6y ago

> We should evaluate "success" holistically, not just financially or else we miss the downstream effects of our decisions. This blindness is the same mindset that has caused climate change. Your comment is guilty of the very sin that it's pointing at. It may be myopic (or blind as you qualified it) to try to frame success, but unless you have some special kind of sight that allows you to evaluate it yourself across time and space, the alternative you suggest, that hypothetical holistic grand evaluation, is itself a pointless exercise. No one knows the future. No one knows what's ultimately "good" or "bad". The same people who keep thinking that they do are also the ones who operate under at least one of three illusions: (1) that something is wrong with the world, (2) that it's fixable and (3) that they know how to fix it. As Oppenheimer once said, it is perfectly obvious that the whole world is going to hell. The only possible chance that it might not is that we do not attempt to prevent it from doing so.