15 ms·

German Radio Turns 100

45 points by samizdis 6y ago

satya71 6y ago
"The first chapter of German broadcasting ended with the National Socialists, who systematically used radio for their anti-Semitic and militant purposes. After the Nazis seized power in 1933, there were personnel "purges," as the persecution apparatus called it: Political dissidents and Jews were forced out of their positions." One of my theories of the current political turmoil is that social media is playing the same role as radio did for the Nazis.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  Not exactly. In German occupied Poland, Poles and Jews were not allowed to own radio receivers. With social media all sides of the architected conflict are agitated unless the media are blocked at the country level.
  - dsohn0 6y ago
    What a dipshit reply.
- brnt 6y ago
  I think we've seen enough evidence for that theory that its not longer a theory. Why would so much money be spent on social media if it didn't work? Thats the business model, and people are paying.
durnygbur 6y ago
Fun fact: German public media have the highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way. Just recently they proposed to increase even further the monthly broadcasting fee. For any foreginer in Germany unfamiliar with the system the bullish letters from brodcasting debt collection are a true slap in the face.
- woodpanel 6y ago
  highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way It has some funnny side-effects: If you manage to land a job there, you'll get paid under the same scheme as public servants, which means that e.g. if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree. The fun part comes when public broadcasters produce segments with a political slant towards anti-capitalism or towards poor people voting populist – and you know that each member of the film crew makes more than 90% of German households.
  - _fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
    > if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree That is most definitely not true. This is not how the system works. There is a fixed table with different tiers. But not everyone with a university degree is in the same tier. It still very much depends on the job you are working.
  - fsh 6y ago
    This is not true. Public servants are paid according to a different pay scale (TVöD [1]) than doctors at public hospitals (TV-Ärzte [2]). With a university degree, you get at most TVöD E13 (sometimes only E11), which is lower than the lowest pay grade for hospital doctors. [1] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=tvoed-bund-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=... [2] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommunal?id=tv-aerzte-vka-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommuna...
    - thg 6y ago
      If only the Rundfunkanstalten would actually pay according to public servant scale, our mandatory GEZ tax would be half of what it actually is. The WDR for example has a median pay of 130.000 Euros / year (+ pensions) across their 4.500 employees. That's not only * a lot* more than any public servant gets, it's more than you can earn at top DAX companies. The GP was wrong in claiming they're being paid under the same scheme as public servants, but they weren't wrong in calling them out for earning insane amounts of money. Now if only we'd actually get decent stuff in return, instead of 15 different talk shows that all have to be broadcast at the exact same time. Some of the stuff they produce is absolutely useful and of great quality, but that's maybe 5% of their entire program (across TV and radio) at best. I'd much rather pay for quality content like the BBC puts out, than Tom Buhrow's 400k Euro salary and "journalists" that ignore and fabricate facts just to have a sensationalized story[0] and then don't even face any repercussions for it. [0] German: https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche-skandal-um-swr-reporterin-judith-brosel-der-fall-erinnert-an-claas-relotius/ https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche...
pelasaco 6y ago
"A century ago, the age of radio began in Germany. Cultural broadcasts made radio popular, though the Nazis later used it for their propaganda." It should be a celebration, so many good things could be written about it, but the Germans always find a way remember their sins. In the first paragraph.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  That was shortly after the birth of audio and video broadcasting. People were especially susceptible to propaganda as it was amplified by the exciting factor of new flashy and noisy media. The population had cheap access to simplified radio receivers of state propaganda [1]. They don't mention it from courtesy, they mention it because it was that evil. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    People are always susceptible to propaganda. The Nazis used all medias including radio, movies, newspaper, music, etc.. Every regime did (does) the same, i guess? My point is that in a celebration day, there are so many positive things to talk about in the first paragraph. 100 years, of an awesome technology, that changed the history. Let's celebrate it!
    - durnygbur 6y ago
      > People are always susceptible to propaganda. Not exactly. Propaganda is easily amplified by new media forms. FB radicalization, streetfights fuelled by IG influencers, politicians declaring laws and wars on Twittter are something new. Have radio had any golden era? Nowadays I can continuously listen to radio, including public ones, maybe 20-30 minutes - until the occurence of first advertising block. The moment the radio starts shouting at me that I need to buy something, it's switched off. Among the few good things coming form radio is maybe radio drama [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama
quink 6y ago
Germany has a remarkable system of public broadcasting that is unequaled in the world. Following World War 2 it was obvious that the centralisation of media was one important factor in the rise of the Nazis and the western allies wanted to ensure that there was no way that the federal government could be anywhere near broadcasting again. Even just legislative control. The private broadcasters are regulated by the states. In fact, the Facebook pages and YouTube channels of the government in particular have come under a fair amount of criticism for having stepped over the line. This prohibition is anchored in the Basic Law through broadcasting not being specifically listed as a power given to the federal government and as such is under the control of the states. The federal government had planned to launch a television service to compete with that established by the regional public broadcasters. It was shut down by the constitutional court. Incidentally, Australia has almost identical but slightly more restrictive wording. The constitutionality of the ABC has never actually been tested directly in court. One dealt with that question peripherally and that aspect of the decision was met with derision in the Federal Law Review and the arguments, weak then, are completely idiotic these days. Back to Germany. The reason why it costs this much is because that is the price of a media organisation and system that is inherently federalised, distributed, with checks and balances all along the way, in a way where by its very nature it is meant to hold itself at least accountable enough and to stop the rise of fascism or other extreme ideology. It has done a remarkable job in that regard, AfD notwithstanding. If the media landscape would be led by Sky News like in Australia, pushing election conspiracies to the top of YouTube and extensively now cited by Trump himself or Fox News in the US or the BBC’s failure on Brexit we would not have seen a cordon sanitaire like we do because the hold the bastards accountable. The biggest media organisation from entirely different organisations, ARD, ZDF and Deutschlandfunk and they do so not in any way related to the Federal Republic of Germany but as sibling organisations that its constituent states decided to form. That is a beautiful concept. It was imposed on Germany, it is expensive, but it is an important part of keeping an ombudsman on democracy, public broadcasting that is an entirely seperate pillar to the very existence of the country itself. It is a price that we need to pay and we shouldn’t mock Germany for maintaining it or to consider it antiquated or complicated. We should look in the mirror and make some effort to have someone other than Rupert Murdoch stare back at us. There’s some saying attributed to him: When I call 10 Downing St they listen, when I call Brussels they couldn’t give a shit. The cost of public broadcasting in Germany is a drop in the bucket versus Brexit alone, just a recent escapade now led by one of The Sun’s former editors. German Public Broadcasting is only partially about entertainment. It is a publicly owned ombudsman acting in the public interest, while independent of most other power structures, and talking to the public every day. And there’s actually at least three, maybe a dozen ombudsmen depending on how you count. Wonderful.
JNRowe 6y ago
Some years ago, having not spoken any German since high school, I wanted a little refresher before starting a project with some German co-workers. I figured DW would offer some standard texts I could use to get started, and was pleasantly surprised to find whole courses available. One in particular, based around the plight of a character called Nico, was actually interesting in its own right¹. Searching for it I see they offer even more now; DW truly does feel like an excellent resource to be proud of for its outreach alone. ¹ https://m.dw.com/en/dws-german-language-courses-nicos-weg-is-now-available-in-polish-and-french/a-53208763 https://m.dw.com/en/dws-german-language-courses-nicos-weg-is...
timonoko 6y ago
It is interesting to compare different extortion-funded broadcasting services, if you know the languages. Hunter Biden's tax issues is a good example. He has obviously done some shenanigans somewhere, I dont care, but wokest radios tell only the poor lad encountered another attack from evil orange man. Finland is the worst, Sweden and Norway little better. DW and BBC do their job reasonably well.

45 points by samizdis 6y ago

"The first chapter of German broadcasting ended with the National Socialists, who systematically used radio for their anti-Semitic and militant purposes. After the Nazis seized power in 1933, there were personnel "purges," as the persecution apparatus called it: Political dissidents and Jews were forced out of their positions." One of my theories of the current political turmoil is that social media is playing the same role as radio did for the Nazis.

durnygbur 6y ago
Not exactly. In German occupied Poland, Poles and Jews were not allowed to own radio receivers. With social media all sides of the architected conflict are agitated unless the media are blocked at the country level.
- dsohn0 6y ago
  What a dipshit reply.
brnt 6y ago
I think we've seen enough evidence for that theory that its not longer a theory. Why would so much money be spent on social media if it didn't work? Thats the business model, and people are paying.

durnygbur 6y ago

Fun fact: German public media have the highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way. Just recently they proposed to increase even further the monthly broadcasting fee. For any foreginer in Germany unfamiliar with the system the bullish letters from brodcasting debt collection are a true slap in the face.

woodpanel 6y ago
highest annual budget in the Solar System, most likely in the entire Milky Way It has some funnny side-effects: If you manage to land a job there, you'll get paid under the same scheme as public servants, which means that e.g. if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree. The fun part comes when public broadcasters produce segments with a political slant towards anti-capitalism or towards poor people voting populist – and you know that each member of the film crew makes more than 90% of German households.
- _fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
  > if you're a camera man you earn as much as a doctor at a public clinic as long as you have a university degree That is most definitely not true. This is not how the system works. There is a fixed table with different tiers. But not everyone with a university degree is in the same tier. It still very much depends on the job you are working.
- fsh 6y ago
  This is not true. Public servants are paid according to a different pay scale (TVöD [1]) than doctors at public hospitals (TV-Ärzte [2]). With a university degree, you get at most TVöD E13 (sometimes only E11), which is lower than the lowest pay grade for hospital doctors. [1] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=tvoed-bund-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/bund?id=... [2] https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommunal?id=tv-aerzte-vka-2020&matrix=1 https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/aerzte/kommuna...
  - thg 6y ago
    If only the Rundfunkanstalten would actually pay according to public servant scale, our mandatory GEZ tax would be half of what it actually is. The WDR for example has a median pay of 130.000 Euros / year (+ pensions) across their 4.500 employees. That's not only * a lot* more than any public servant gets, it's more than you can earn at top DAX companies. The GP was wrong in claiming they're being paid under the same scheme as public servants, but they weren't wrong in calling them out for earning insane amounts of money. Now if only we'd actually get decent stuff in return, instead of 15 different talk shows that all have to be broadcast at the exact same time. Some of the stuff they produce is absolutely useful and of great quality, but that's maybe 5% of their entire program (across TV and radio) at best. I'd much rather pay for quality content like the BBC puts out, than Tom Buhrow's 400k Euro salary and "journalists" that ignore and fabricate facts just to have a sensationalized story[0] and then don't even face any repercussions for it. [0] German: https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche-skandal-um-swr-reporterin-judith-brosel-der-fall-erinnert-an-claas-relotius/ https://www.mitteldeutsches-journal.com/2020/02/28/recherche...

pelasaco 6y ago

"A century ago, the age of radio began in Germany. Cultural broadcasts made radio popular, though the Nazis later used it for their propaganda." It should be a celebration, so many good things could be written about it, but the Germans always find a way remember their sins. In the first paragraph.

durnygbur 6y ago
That was shortly after the birth of audio and video broadcasting. People were especially susceptible to propaganda as it was amplified by the exciting factor of new flashy and noisy media. The population had cheap access to simplified radio receivers of state propaganda [1]. They don't mention it from courtesy, they mention it because it was that evil. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger
- pelasaco 6y ago
  People are always susceptible to propaganda. The Nazis used all medias including radio, movies, newspaper, music, etc.. Every regime did (does) the same, i guess? My point is that in a celebration day, there are so many positive things to talk about in the first paragraph. 100 years, of an awesome technology, that changed the history. Let's celebrate it!
  - durnygbur 6y ago
    > People are always susceptible to propaganda. Not exactly. Propaganda is easily amplified by new media forms. FB radicalization, streetfights fuelled by IG influencers, politicians declaring laws and wars on Twittter are something new. Have radio had any golden era? Nowadays I can continuously listen to radio, including public ones, maybe 20-30 minutes - until the occurence of first advertising block. The moment the radio starts shouting at me that I need to buy something, it's switched off. Among the few good things coming form radio is maybe radio drama [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama

quink 6y ago

Germany has a remarkable system of public broadcasting that is unequaled in the world. Following World War 2 it was obvious that the centralisation of media was one important factor in the rise of the Nazis and the western allies wanted to ensure that there was no way that the federal government could be anywhere near broadcasting again. Even just legislative control. The private broadcasters are regulated by the states. In fact, the Facebook pages and YouTube channels of the government in particular have come under a fair amount of criticism for having stepped over the line. This prohibition is anchored in the Basic Law through broadcasting not being specifically listed as a power given to the federal government and as such is under the control of the states. The federal government had planned to launch a television service to compete with that established by the regional public broadcasters. It was shut down by the constitutional court. Incidentally, Australia has almost identical but slightly more restrictive wording. The constitutionality of the ABC has never actually been tested directly in court. One dealt with that question peripherally and that aspect of the decision was met with derision in the Federal Law Review and the arguments, weak then, are completely idiotic these days. Back to Germany. The reason why it costs this much is because that is the price of a media organisation and system that is inherently federalised, distributed, with checks and balances all along the way, in a way where by its very nature it is meant to hold itself at least accountable enough and to stop the rise of fascism or other extreme ideology. It has done a remarkable job in that regard, AfD notwithstanding. If the media landscape would be led by Sky News like in Australia, pushing election conspiracies to the top of YouTube and extensively now cited by Trump himself or Fox News in the US or the BBC’s failure on Brexit we would not have seen a cordon sanitaire like we do because the hold the bastards accountable. The biggest media organisation from entirely different organisations, ARD, ZDF and Deutschlandfunk and they do so not in any way related to the Federal Republic of Germany but as sibling organisations that its constituent states decided to form. That is a beautiful concept. It was imposed on Germany, it is expensive, but it is an important part of keeping an ombudsman on democracy, public broadcasting that is an entirely seperate pillar to the very existence of the country itself. It is a price that we need to pay and we shouldn’t mock Germany for maintaining it or to consider it antiquated or complicated. We should look in the mirror and make some effort to have someone other than Rupert Murdoch stare back at us. There’s some saying attributed to him: When I call 10 Downing St they listen, when I call Brussels they couldn’t give a shit. The cost of public broadcasting in Germany is a drop in the bucket versus Brexit alone, just a recent escapade now led by one of The Sun’s former editors. German Public Broadcasting is only partially about entertainment. It is a publicly owned ombudsman acting in the public interest, while independent of most other power structures, and talking to the public every day. And there’s actually at least three, maybe a dozen ombudsmen depending on how you count. Wonderful.

JNRowe 6y ago

Some years ago, having not spoken any German since high school, I wanted a little refresher before starting a project with some German co-workers. I figured DW would offer some standard texts I could use to get started, and was pleasantly surprised to find whole courses available. One in particular, based around the plight of a character called Nico, was actually interesting in its own right¹. Searching for it I see they offer even more now; DW truly does feel like an excellent resource to be proud of for its outreach alone. ¹ https://m.dw.com/en/dws-german-language-courses-nicos-weg-is-now-available-in-polish-and-french/a-53208763 https://m.dw.com/en/dws-german-language-courses-nicos-weg-is...

timonoko 6y ago

It is interesting to compare different extortion-funded broadcasting services, if you know the languages. Hunter Biden's tax issues is a good example. He has obviously done some shenanigans somewhere, I dont care, but wokest radios tell only the poor lad encountered another attack from evil orange man. Finland is the worst, Sweden and Norway little better. DW and BBC do their job reasonably well.