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Try divorcing yourself from a 1950's Red Scare definition of the word "communism," and imagine what Karl Marx actually had in mind. From Wikipedia: > Accordin

Try divorcing yourself from a 1950's Red Scare definition of the word "communism," and imagine what Karl Marx actually had in mind. From Wikipedia: > According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Marx, "Marx used many terms to refer to a post-capitalist society—positive humanism, socialism, Communism, realm of free individuality, free association of producers, etc. He used these terms completely interchangeably. The notion that "socialism" and "Communism" are distinct historical stages is alien to his work and only entered the lexicon of Marxism after his death".[36] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism#Communism,_revolution_and_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism#Communism,_revolution_... Within that framework, it sounds like surveillance capitalism is infinitely worse than surveillance communism, because the framework of surveillance capitalism exists only to exploit and commodify people, in order to sell them things. Or worse, commoditize them in order to sell "them," i.e. their data, to others whom the subjects of said surveillance never consented to share with. OTOH, the hypothetical framework of surveillance communism would at least be intended to benefit society as a whole. I don't know if there's any contemporary thought on the matter, but Marx probably couldn't have conceived of the type of mass surveillance we have today, which means he probably wouldn't have understood the question straight away.

ivojp 6y ago
The fact that you think "surveillance communism" would be for society's benefit and that the idea of communist countries mass spying on their subjects is hypothetical shows how much education in this country has failed us.
- fabianhjr 6y ago
  > education in this country What country? Did you assume everyone visiting and commenting on this website live on one country?
  - ivojp 6y ago
    Holy hell, calm down, bro. I never assumed everyone, I am replying to pmiller2. And yes, I am assuming pmiller2 and I both live in the United States. There is a pretty good chance I am correct about that. How fun are you at parties?
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      You're assuming, huh? What's the basis for that assumption? What's even the relevance? Do my arguments carry less weight if I'm a brown person living in Bangladesh than if I'm a cishet white guy living in NYC?
      - ivojp 6y ago
        No rational person could possibly see where you might be going with this. The relevance of the assumption is that I made the statement "the education in this country has failed us" - us being you and I. So the relevance is that we both live in the same country regardless of our race, gender identity, or sexuality. I am not how you managed to pull all of those things in.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        But, do we? You've assumed that. And, even if we do, what relevance does that have to my arguments?
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Again putting words in my mouth, huh? I did not say any such thing. I said that it could benefit "society as a whole." I highly doubt a capitalist society would adopt such a principle. Nor did I say that any country spying on their own people was hypothetical. If it is "tiring" to attempt to argue with me, it's because I don't fall for your pathetic rhetorical attempts to inflame, and you don't seem to be able to read what I said without making a straw man out of it. Name calling does not constitute argumentation. Do better, please, if you can. BTW, I am a English native speaker. I truly wish I could get a refund on my English language instruction, and instead have had the luxury of being born somewhere civilized.

ivojp 6y ago

The fact that you think "surveillance communism" would be for society's benefit and that the idea of communist countries mass spying on their subjects is hypothetical shows how much education in this country has failed us.

fabianhjr 6y ago
> education in this country What country? Did you assume everyone visiting and commenting on this website live on one country?
- ivojp 6y ago
  Holy hell, calm down, bro. I never assumed everyone, I am replying to pmiller2. And yes, I am assuming pmiller2 and I both live in the United States. There is a pretty good chance I am correct about that. How fun are you at parties?
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    You're assuming, huh? What's the basis for that assumption? What's even the relevance? Do my arguments carry less weight if I'm a brown person living in Bangladesh than if I'm a cishet white guy living in NYC?
    - ivojp 6y ago
      No rational person could possibly see where you might be going with this. The relevance of the assumption is that I made the statement "the education in this country has failed us" - us being you and I. So the relevance is that we both live in the same country regardless of our race, gender identity, or sexuality. I am not how you managed to pull all of those things in.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        But, do we? You've assumed that. And, even if we do, what relevance does that have to my arguments?
pmiller2 6y ago
Again putting words in my mouth, huh? I did not say any such thing. I said that it could benefit "society as a whole." I highly doubt a capitalist society would adopt such a principle. Nor did I say that any country spying on their own people was hypothetical. If it is "tiring" to attempt to argue with me, it's because I don't fall for your pathetic rhetorical attempts to inflame, and you don't seem to be able to read what I said without making a straw man out of it. Name calling does not constitute argumentation. Do better, please, if you can. BTW, I am a English native speaker. I truly wish I could get a refund on my English language instruction, and instead have had the luxury of being born somewhere civilized.