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> I don't think Sam Altman would consider such a person successful. Then we should first define "success" before continuing the conversation. I worry there mi

by xapata 6y ago

> I don't think Sam Altman would consider such a person successful. Then we should first define "success" before continuing the conversation. I worry there might be a bit of a No True Scotsman problem, working backwards from the conclusion of laziness preventing success. The typical definition of "successful" is almost synonymous with "wealthy" except for popular artists (broadly defined) who for some reason aren't able to earn from their work or achieved popularity posthumously.

inglor_cz 6y ago
In my personal bubble, people whose wealth was inherited from previous generations, are not considered successful. The very word "success" implies the previous effort to reach something, gain something etc. Do you anecdotally know someone who said "John is a son of a magnate who does nothing all day, he is so successful"? There is a different situation when the successor generation multiplies the wealth, but that already takes some effort and good judgment.
- xapata 6y ago
  > Do you anecdotally know someone who said "John is a son of a magnate who does nothing all day, he is so successful"? Yes, though they don't emphasize the doing-nothing. Further, it's easy for a wealthy person to mask doing nothing with appearing busy yet effectively being a socialite. > There is a different situation when the successor generation multiplies the wealth, but that already takes some effort and good judgment. It may take good judgement, but not much effort. VTSAX and chill, as the kids say. I grew up around the kids of very wealthy people, often multi-generational wealth. Most decided to have jobs. Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow. It's not hard to appear wise and smart when you're wealthy, and then you can simply not fuck up and the rest of the pyramid keeps chugging along. Case in point, Trump. He is a lazy fuck-up, but somehow managed to appear "successful" to a large portion of America.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    " Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow." Frankly, that sounds depressing. Seen like that, people who were born to wealthy parents have no way to prove their own quality. They will always be suspected to be just lucky and riding the easy wave. "then you can simply not fuck up" There is nothing simple about that. I consider myself fairly smart and I fucked up royally several times in my life. It did not destroy me, I was able to put the pieces together, but none of the decisions seemed bad at that time, either to me or to people I consulted it with. There is a lot of traps out there.
    - xapata 6y ago
      > no way to prove For a start, don't join Dad's company as VP when you're 22. Luckily, they don't need to prove quality, because wealth is a good enough proxy indicator for almost everyone. If you're talking about proving to oneself, then they're on the same footing as everyone else. > don't fuck up Easy: don't do anything. Leave the money where it is. Take an annual allowance. I think you're saying it's hard to have the self control to not meddle, to not insert oneself into the power nexus? I suppose. Hubris is human.
  - mobattah 6y ago
    > Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow. The first opportunity is always the toughest. Also grew up around wealthy people, vast majority of them fall into the category you describe. I was lucky to meet someone early in my adulthood who would always stress "What part did YOU do?" "Show me YOUR code" What I like about him is you can't get the bullshit you describe past him. He always breaks down what you say into the most simplest form to ascertain what truth exists within your words. He won't let you ride another person's coattail.

by xapata 6y ago

inglor_cz 6y ago

In my personal bubble, people whose wealth was inherited from previous generations, are not considered successful. The very word "success" implies the previous effort to reach something, gain something etc. Do you anecdotally know someone who said "John is a son of a magnate who does nothing all day, he is so successful"? There is a different situation when the successor generation multiplies the wealth, but that already takes some effort and good judgment.

xapata 6y ago
> Do you anecdotally know someone who said "John is a son of a magnate who does nothing all day, he is so successful"? Yes, though they don't emphasize the doing-nothing. Further, it's easy for a wealthy person to mask doing nothing with appearing busy yet effectively being a socialite. > There is a different situation when the successor generation multiplies the wealth, but that already takes some effort and good judgment. It may take good judgement, but not much effort. VTSAX and chill, as the kids say. I grew up around the kids of very wealthy people, often multi-generational wealth. Most decided to have jobs. Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow. It's not hard to appear wise and smart when you're wealthy, and then you can simply not fuck up and the rest of the pyramid keeps chugging along. Case in point, Trump. He is a lazy fuck-up, but somehow managed to appear "successful" to a large portion of America.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  " Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow." Frankly, that sounds depressing. Seen like that, people who were born to wealthy parents have no way to prove their own quality. They will always be suspected to be just lucky and riding the easy wave. "then you can simply not fuck up" There is nothing simple about that. I consider myself fairly smart and I fucked up royally several times in my life. It did not destroy me, I was able to put the pieces together, but none of the decisions seemed bad at that time, either to me or to people I consulted it with. There is a lot of traps out there.
  - xapata 6y ago
    > no way to prove For a start, don't join Dad's company as VP when you're 22. Luckily, they don't need to prove quality, because wealth is a good enough proxy indicator for almost everyone. If you're talking about proving to oneself, then they're on the same footing as everyone else. > don't fuck up Easy: don't do anything. Leave the money where it is. Take an annual allowance. I think you're saying it's hard to have the self control to not meddle, to not insert oneself into the power nexus? I suppose. Hubris is human.
- mobattah 6y ago
  > Some had very impressive careers, but when you realize that first opportunity was only because of a parental connection, suddenly it seems a bit hollow. The first opportunity is always the toughest. Also grew up around wealthy people, vast majority of them fall into the category you describe. I was lucky to meet someone early in my adulthood who would always stress "What part did YOU do?" "Show me YOUR code" What I like about him is you can't get the bullshit you describe past him. He always breaks down what you say into the most simplest form to ascertain what truth exists within your words. He won't let you ride another person's coattail.