6 ms·

For a college as selective as West Point, I'm surprised so many students had to cheat on a Calculus test.

mediaman 6y ago
Seriously. That's what surprises me about a lot of cheating: really? Cheating on this material? Why not at least wait to cheat when it really counts, on something very difficult to do without cheating? This form of cheating just seems lazy.
cafard 6y ago
a) They are selected for a variety of qualities, and mathematical competence weighs only so much, I suppose. b) They have many duties that eat up time and energy, and no doubt make it harder to study than it would be at a standard university.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  I wonder why West Point combines academics and military training at the same time. Why not doing them one after the other?
  - cafard 6y ago
    Historical reasons, but I don't know enough about this to say what they were. I infer that some of it may have had to do with the more uneven level of secondary schools in the US, as compared to the UK--where Sandhurst has a much shorter period of study (doesn't it)--or I suppose France/St. Cyr.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Yes most people turn up to Sandhurst having already completed a full degree at a normal civilian university.
      - cafard 6y ago
        Or, in the 19th and earlier 20th Century, public school, just as in Germany the Abitur qualified one to do one's compulsory military service as an officer of the reserve. Now, the instruction in the public school and gymnasium leaned heavily on classical studies, and no doubt for much of the period scanted math and science. But there would have been a consistent level of schooling. In the US, particularly until the late 19th Century, I'm not sure that was so. The congressman on the recent frontier had an appointment in his gift, just as did the congressman whose district took in the Boston Latin School. Combining the military and educational instruction gave a chance to bring everyone up to at least a known level.
VLM 6y ago
Sleep deprivation to provide "realistic combat stress" is a goal in military training. Also giving the trainees 30 hours of work to do per day is a realistic although brutal way to teach prioritization. Certainly, after graduation, most officers are going to use radio procedures or legal processes or excellence in first aid is expected a lot more than calculus on the job. Personally I thought army basic training was OK other than not having a full nights sleep for two months. Certainly I could never pass a calculus exam on a couple hours of sleep over the past weeks. It really is amazing how unproductive humans are after a couple hours of hard work or even just ten hours sitting in a chair. Also your job assignment for officers is given based on your GPA and your GPA will be based on a curved test. So its not that cadets are accepted in a grueling process and then it smooth sailing, its more like the grueling process just begins and whomever high scores the calc test gets branched Aviation in three years whereas the guy at the bottom of the calc test gets Chemical corps or ADA (supposedly the work-life balance of ADA is the worst in the entire Army...)
colinmhayes 6y ago
I went to a top ten engineering school and cheating was pretty rampant. You don't get to the top without badly wanting it.

Seriously. That's what surprises me about a lot of cheating: really? Cheating on this material? Why not at least wait to cheat when it really counts, on something very difficult to do without cheating? This form of cheating just seems lazy.

cafard 6y ago

a) They are selected for a variety of qualities, and mathematical competence weighs only so much, I suppose. b) They have many duties that eat up time and energy, and no doubt make it harder to study than it would be at a standard university.

chrisseaton 6y ago
I wonder why West Point combines academics and military training at the same time. Why not doing them one after the other?
- cafard 6y ago
  Historical reasons, but I don't know enough about this to say what they were. I infer that some of it may have had to do with the more uneven level of secondary schools in the US, as compared to the UK--where Sandhurst has a much shorter period of study (doesn't it)--or I suppose France/St. Cyr.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Yes most people turn up to Sandhurst having already completed a full degree at a normal civilian university.
    - cafard 6y ago
      Or, in the 19th and earlier 20th Century, public school, just as in Germany the Abitur qualified one to do one's compulsory military service as an officer of the reserve. Now, the instruction in the public school and gymnasium leaned heavily on classical studies, and no doubt for much of the period scanted math and science. But there would have been a consistent level of schooling. In the US, particularly until the late 19th Century, I'm not sure that was so. The congressman on the recent frontier had an appointment in his gift, just as did the congressman whose district took in the Boston Latin School. Combining the military and educational instruction gave a chance to bring everyone up to at least a known level.

VLM 6y ago

Sleep deprivation to provide "realistic combat stress" is a goal in military training. Also giving the trainees 30 hours of work to do per day is a realistic although brutal way to teach prioritization. Certainly, after graduation, most officers are going to use radio procedures or legal processes or excellence in first aid is expected a lot more than calculus on the job. Personally I thought army basic training was OK other than not having a full nights sleep for two months. Certainly I could never pass a calculus exam on a couple hours of sleep over the past weeks. It really is amazing how unproductive humans are after a couple hours of hard work or even just ten hours sitting in a chair. Also your job assignment for officers is given based on your GPA and your GPA will be based on a curved test. So its not that cadets are accepted in a grueling process and then it smooth sailing, its more like the grueling process just begins and whomever high scores the calc test gets branched Aviation in three years whereas the guy at the bottom of the calc test gets Chemical corps or ADA (supposedly the work-life balance of ADA is the worst in the entire Army...)

colinmhayes 6y ago

I went to a top ten engineering school and cheating was pretty rampant. You don't get to the top without badly wanting it.