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What are they trying to gain? Now, at least, FB/Google/etc can also purchase the hacking tools, and try to defeat them. If NSO is shut down, their employees w

What are they trying to gain? Now, at least, FB/Google/etc can also purchase the hacking tools, and try to defeat them. If NSO is shut down, their employees will likely be scooped up by any number of underworld markets - the payloads will become larger, more audacious, and better hidden. Obviously, the big corps know that. My guess is they are more interested in increasing their cover (what could we have done), than they are in security.

bhouston 6y ago
It is whack-a-mole, but you just keep doing it. Similar to what happens when the big guys go after the spammers. Anytime they become organized and identifiable, you take them out. I heard once of a strategy called "mowing the grass", you want to keep your opponents unsophisticated and always regrouping.
- sam_goody 6y ago
  Public companies like NSO that are on the books can be taken down. They also limit to whom they sell. And sometimes can help to limit the damage (eg, I suspect Iran cannot use NSO tools to attack the Mossad). But if their employees are hired by companies that are hacking for profit or "national security", there is no one to "take down". Or even keep your eye on. And if they are hired by companies that sell this software in markets that are impossible to regulate (such as is done with hacked credit cards et al, from Russia, N. Korea, and elsewhere), then their hacks will be made available in such a manner that you perhaps could eventually take down some of them (if you spend dozens of years and gobs of money and arm-twisting), but by then the damage will be 100-fold, since there are no limits to whom it is sold. And even then, you can never know what else you missed.
  - adriancr 6y ago
    If companies such as these do not exist or are killed then the employees you mention will have a hard existing. Sure there are self taught people but a lot learn on the job. If companies are killed off then investments will be harder to come by and the tech to do the hacks will be harder to get to. Those employees if they decide to collaborate with Iran/NK/Russia vs the US will find US can easily arrest them once they set foot anywhere in the western world.
  - bhouston 6y ago
    I am not sure that is the case. Remember when it was said that BTC anonymous marketplaces couldn't be stopped. They are regularly broken up and many prosecuted and put in jail. Of course more arise but the FBI and others are constantly "mowing the grass" to keep it under control. Mowing the grass works, it doesn't make the problem worse, it reduces the scope and number of players, and disincentives many players.
- milkshakes 6y ago
  ironically that concept is wielded by the israelis in a rather unfortunate context https://m.jpost.com/opinion/columnists/mowing-the-grass-in-gaza-368516/amp https://m.jpost.com/opinion/columnists/mowing-the-grass-in-g...
justapassenger 6y ago
If someone robs your house, will you avoid legal challenges against them?

bhouston 6y ago

It is whack-a-mole, but you just keep doing it. Similar to what happens when the big guys go after the spammers. Anytime they become organized and identifiable, you take them out. I heard once of a strategy called "mowing the grass", you want to keep your opponents unsophisticated and always regrouping.

sam_goody 6y ago
Public companies like NSO that are on the books can be taken down. They also limit to whom they sell. And sometimes can help to limit the damage (eg, I suspect Iran cannot use NSO tools to attack the Mossad). But if their employees are hired by companies that are hacking for profit or "national security", there is no one to "take down". Or even keep your eye on. And if they are hired by companies that sell this software in markets that are impossible to regulate (such as is done with hacked credit cards et al, from Russia, N. Korea, and elsewhere), then their hacks will be made available in such a manner that you perhaps could eventually take down some of them (if you spend dozens of years and gobs of money and arm-twisting), but by then the damage will be 100-fold, since there are no limits to whom it is sold. And even then, you can never know what else you missed.
- adriancr 6y ago
  If companies such as these do not exist or are killed then the employees you mention will have a hard existing. Sure there are self taught people but a lot learn on the job. If companies are killed off then investments will be harder to come by and the tech to do the hacks will be harder to get to. Those employees if they decide to collaborate with Iran/NK/Russia vs the US will find US can easily arrest them once they set foot anywhere in the western world.
- bhouston 6y ago
  I am not sure that is the case. Remember when it was said that BTC anonymous marketplaces couldn't be stopped. They are regularly broken up and many prosecuted and put in jail. Of course more arise but the FBI and others are constantly "mowing the grass" to keep it under control. Mowing the grass works, it doesn't make the problem worse, it reduces the scope and number of players, and disincentives many players.
milkshakes 6y ago
ironically that concept is wielded by the israelis in a rather unfortunate context https://m.jpost.com/opinion/columnists/mowing-the-grass-in-gaza-368516/amp https://m.jpost.com/opinion/columnists/mowing-the-grass-in-g...

justapassenger 6y ago

If someone robs your house, will you avoid legal challenges against them?