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Could be doing more harm than good. CPR on human babies are known to cause rib fractures.

by someperson 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
AllegedAlec 6y ago
Rib fractures are generally preferable over your heart stopping.
Kuinox 6y ago
Babies human ? A proper CPR often fracture ribs at all ages.
Tomte 6y ago
CPR on adult patients regularly causes rib fractures, and it's no problem. Because a stopped heart is infinitely more serious and urgent than broken bones.
Galanwe 6y ago
CPR quite often break ribs on grown up adults too. It's a small price to pay for a potentially life saving operation.
satysin 6y ago
That is true for adults as well. When I did a first aid course the instructor said something like 30-40% of people who receive CPR will have fractured ribs as you need to put a lot of pressure on the chest to do it properly. "If you haven't heard a crack you are not pumping hard enough" was the rule he went by although they are mostly talking about the sternum but if you hear/feel a rib crack you don't stop. You keep on pumping until a paramedic arrives if you can. A few minutes doing CPR on someone is exhausting. I did 5 minutes on the dummy and after I felt like I was going to pass out. Thankfully I've never had to use it.
- Galanwe 6y ago
  > Thankfully I've never had to use it. Did a first aid certification 15 years ago in France. At the end of the course, they told us that based on French law, it is your legal duty if you have the certification to perform first aid when the situation requires it. That is, once you have the certification, if you do not perform a somewhat correct first aid procedure in case of need, you could be charged for "non assistance à personne en danger" (disregarding assistance to endangered person). It dreads me to this day that I could have to perform such procedure and not remember it. Luckily I never had to.
  - nowahe 6y ago
    Fun fact, the "non assistance à personne en danger" law was passed during WW2, when France was under the collaborative Vichy Regime. It was to compel French citizens to help injured German soldiers.
  - alwayseasy 6y ago
    French law will only put you in trouble if you voluntarily do absolutely nothing. For instance not calling an ambulance when you could have. When the action taken is judged "insufficient" (like not trying to stop heavy bleeding) there is a consideration for your medical knowledge. You'll never be in trouble for not performing everything correctly, especially after 15 years. First responders appreciate someone who has some better understanding of the situation so don't hesitate! I've been in this situation recently: I had first aid certification in 2004 and then a bad situation happened. Ancient "training" kicked-in and I took charge of the situation with some mistakes due to adrenaline and having to manage panicked people around me.
  - kiliantics 6y ago
    You should do a refresher course because some of the recommended procedures have changed over the years. I think everyone should take a regular first aid course, it is strange to me how many people I know have never had one.
cobbzilla 6y ago
as a volunteer EMT I’ve done CPR a few times. it’s normal to break ribs. probability of rib fracture increases with age. sufficiently old and it approaches 100%. babies are the most flexible, I don’t know if their ribs even can break, below a certain age. edit: clarifying, I’ve never not broken ribs, but my youngest patient was middle age.
- ljlolel 6y ago
  I was an EMT. If you're not breaking ribs then you're probably not pushing hard enough to pump blood.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
OJFord 6y ago
Rib fractures are not more harm than death. When I was taught, for use on humans, broken ribs were expected and without them 'you're probably not pushing hard enough'. Worst that could happen is one punctures a lung, but they're going to need medical attention if you get a pulse back anyway, that can be dealt with. It should be clear - in an ideal scenario you'd have direct access to massage (or shock) the heart, chest compressions are approximating that through flesh, skin, and bone... The ribs' job is to protect the heart from the sort of thing you're trying to do!

Could be doing more harm than good. CPR on human babies are known to cause rib fractures.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

AllegedAlec 6y ago

Rib fractures are generally preferable over your heart stopping.

Kuinox 6y ago

Babies human ? A proper CPR often fracture ribs at all ages.

Tomte 6y ago

CPR on adult patients regularly causes rib fractures, and it's no problem. Because a stopped heart is infinitely more serious and urgent than broken bones.

Galanwe 6y ago

CPR quite often break ribs on grown up adults too. It's a small price to pay for a potentially life saving operation.

satysin 6y ago

That is true for adults as well. When I did a first aid course the instructor said something like 30-40% of people who receive CPR will have fractured ribs as you need to put a lot of pressure on the chest to do it properly. "If you haven't heard a crack you are not pumping hard enough" was the rule he went by although they are mostly talking about the sternum but if you hear/feel a rib crack you don't stop. You keep on pumping until a paramedic arrives if you can. A few minutes doing CPR on someone is exhausting. I did 5 minutes on the dummy and after I felt like I was going to pass out. Thankfully I've never had to use it.

Galanwe 6y ago
> Thankfully I've never had to use it. Did a first aid certification 15 years ago in France. At the end of the course, they told us that based on French law, it is your legal duty if you have the certification to perform first aid when the situation requires it. That is, once you have the certification, if you do not perform a somewhat correct first aid procedure in case of need, you could be charged for "non assistance à personne en danger" (disregarding assistance to endangered person). It dreads me to this day that I could have to perform such procedure and not remember it. Luckily I never had to.
- nowahe 6y ago
  Fun fact, the "non assistance à personne en danger" law was passed during WW2, when France was under the collaborative Vichy Regime. It was to compel French citizens to help injured German soldiers.
- alwayseasy 6y ago
  French law will only put you in trouble if you voluntarily do absolutely nothing. For instance not calling an ambulance when you could have. When the action taken is judged "insufficient" (like not trying to stop heavy bleeding) there is a consideration for your medical knowledge. You'll never be in trouble for not performing everything correctly, especially after 15 years. First responders appreciate someone who has some better understanding of the situation so don't hesitate! I've been in this situation recently: I had first aid certification in 2004 and then a bad situation happened. Ancient "training" kicked-in and I took charge of the situation with some mistakes due to adrenaline and having to manage panicked people around me.
- kiliantics 6y ago
  You should do a refresher course because some of the recommended procedures have changed over the years. I think everyone should take a regular first aid course, it is strange to me how many people I know have never had one.

cobbzilla 6y ago

as a volunteer EMT I’ve done CPR a few times. it’s normal to break ribs. probability of rib fracture increases with age. sufficiently old and it approaches 100%. babies are the most flexible, I don’t know if their ribs even can break, below a certain age. edit: clarifying, I’ve never not broken ribs, but my youngest patient was middle age.

ljlolel 6y ago
I was an EMT. If you're not breaking ribs then you're probably not pushing hard enough to pump blood.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

OJFord 6y ago

Rib fractures are not more harm than death. When I was taught, for use on humans, broken ribs were expected and without them 'you're probably not pushing hard enough'. Worst that could happen is one punctures a lung, but they're going to need medical attention if you get a pulse back anyway, that can be dealt with. It should be clear - in an ideal scenario you'd have direct access to massage (or shock) the heart, chest compressions are approximating that through flesh, skin, and bone... The ribs' job is to protect the heart from the sort of thing you're trying to do!