12 ms·

I've also investigated this quite deeply. As I'm sure most of us know, the main problems with 'webcams', either the built-in ones or USB ones that you perch on

I've also investigated this quite deeply. As I'm sure most of us know, the main problems with 'webcams', either the built-in ones or USB ones that you perch on top of your monitor, are the lens size, and the CCD/CMOS image sensor size. Manufacturers spouting specs like '4k' are deliberately misleading the public if the sensor and/or the lens aren't also upgraded. The only cost-viable methods to get 'broadcast quality' imagery for streaming/recording right now is to buy a second hand DLSR or mirrorless camera that has 'clean' HDMI out that works without the camera auto-shutting down after X amount of time. There are a few sites out there that list the preferable models[1]. I've got a couple of old Canon DSLRs (That don't do clean HDMI) and a load of lenses, so I've been watching Ebay for a newer model Canon DSLR that I can afford. The lowest cost Canon DSLR body I've seen with unrestricted clean HDMI or that can take the Magic Lantern[2] firmware is about £150. However... You also need a HDMI-to-USB dongle. This converts the cameras HDMI output into a standard USB Webcam input. I've already got an Elgato CamLink[3] (bought for a different reason a couple of years ago), but you can get cheap China knockoffs for about £15, I don't know how good they are though. My Camlink cost WAY more than that, so I have my doubts about the knockoff quality. Finally, you need good audio capture that importantly is in sync with the picture. The HDMI to USB conversion adds a tiny delay to the image which can put your audio out of sync if you are using a standard USB microphone. Good software like OBS[4] can correct for this though. --- [1] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link/camera-check https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link/camera-check [2] https://magiclantern.fm/ https://magiclantern.fm/ [3] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k [4] https://obsproject.com/ https://obsproject.com/

denimnerd42 6y ago
I have a similar setup but don't you find the latency to be bad? At least it's not good enough for video calls IMO. It's fine for streaming to an audience or recording.
- vetinari 6y ago
  With random chinese knock-off and GoPro 3, I had a latency of 10-11 frames when doing 60 fps stream. It was usable for video calls, but I had problems with reliability (old battery in Gopro, and even if it was permanently connected to power source, it charged only when I turned it on -- which usually was when I wanted to have a call).
piranha 6y ago
> you can get cheap china-knockoffs for about £12, I don't know how good they are. They are so-so. Well, they are much-much better than any webcam, of course, but 1080p is almost the same as 720p on them. So as a budget thingie it'll work, but Elgato's adapter is much better, of course.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >So as a budget thingie it'll work, but Elgato's adapter is much better, of course. I saw a video where Elgato Camlink opened up, is just a chinese card repackaged with the Elgato logo, 99% similar internally to the cheap knockoffs. Can't find it again to link it to...
  - rasz 6y ago
    https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Elgato_CAM_LINK_4K https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Elgato_CAM_LINK_4K 8 layer pcb with custom fpga hardware, doesnt look all that cheap chinese knockoff to me
    - coldtea 6y ago
      You're right, I watched this youtube video on an expensive brand name item vs several chinese knockoffs and they had the same internals -- but it probably wasn't the Camlink then. Can't find the video atm, or remember what product it did show, but it was posted in the last 2-3 months and it concerned a similarly on-demand item -- and the "repackaging" brand was respected by creators...
- Tepix 6y ago
  It's converting a digital signal (HDMI) to another digital signal. Why should there be any quality loss even if it's a cheap chinese model?
  - piranha 6y ago
    Well, because they don’t have enough processing power I guess? IDK, it’s hot all the time and image quality is lower than what I can get from a camera SD card.
aosaigh 6y ago
Great comment. Another few things to add to this if you are going for more broadcast quality rather than just Zoom calls: - The lens you use if crucial. A nice and fast prime portrait lens (20-50mm f1.4 or something) will make a huge difference with indoor light and give you nice bokeh/blurred background. - Good quality lighting is essential. El Gato have a good, but again expensive, key light you can use as your primary source of light, but you might need side-lights and back-lights too.
antonyh 6y ago
Rumour has it that the imitation 'Camlink' products overheat and cut out. Probably solvable with the addition of a heatsink if true.
gsich 6y ago
The cheap USB-HDMI is perfectly viable for using it as a webcam. Qualitywise you won't notice any difference through a highly compressed Zoom/Teams/Skype video. They can output 1080p30 or 720p60, which is again mostly irrelevant in the webcam situations.
antonyh 6y ago
I got the CamLink 4k, for use with a 4K camera (Sony AX33). Unfortunately, the HDMI out is only 1080P. So yeah while it works it doesn't feel like much of an upgrade over my aging Logitech C910.
kevincharm 6y ago
I use a similar setup with a Panasonic GH5 I already had, but I bought one of those €15 Chinese HDMI capture USB UVC cards [1]. These work surprisingly well, and I've had zero issues using them for ~4 hours back-to-back Zoom meetings on my MBP. They've also received some good reviews on YouTube [2]. For audio, I use my Airpods. Great setup for meetings. Latency is good enough IMO. -- [1]: https://www.amazon.nl/gp/product/B088ZTK56F https://www.amazon.nl/gp/product/B088ZTK56F [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U
- Tepix 6y ago
  Panasonic released a (beta) webcam software this year. It supports the GH5 and works well. Give it a try, it's free. https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumix_webcam_software.html https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumix_webcam... It's available for Windows and macOS. The Mac version seems to have more issues with various apps than the Windows version at the moment.
fluffy87 6y ago
I hooked a gopro this way. Their new drivers support using them as Webcams on macos and windows. Beer Webcam I’ve ever had.
- ktpsns 6y ago
  Is this related to newer firmware or so? Because I have a gopro and the usb stream quality is only very low, compared to the HD recording facilities of these devices. If you browse the web for this, you will find (again, as in the threads here) the recommendation to use a HDMI-to-USB converter to capture the high quality HDMI stream a gopro can emit.
- Ballas 6y ago
  > Beer Webcam I’ve ever had. Sounds like you have had quite a couple...
  - ct0 6y ago
    these are trying times, ive had a couple web cans myself
arvinsim 6y ago
I tried to use the Elgato Camlink with my Macbook and Sony ala6400. But everytime I use it, the fans would ramp to a noisy level. Turns out that processing is still being done by the Macbook.
- raegis 6y ago
  I have the Elgato 4K and the Sony a6400 and my computer (NUC8 running Debian) does not overheat.
  - arvinsim 6y ago
    Perhaps the NUC handles thermals a lot better than the laptop. I consistently get around 4-5k RPM when connecting with Elgato Camlink.
riho 6y ago
Finally made an account, just to reply to this. With newer Canon DSLR bodies you can use the Canon Webcam Utility[1] to directly get the video feed show up as a webcam, with just a USB cable. I've been using the EOS R as my webcam with the RF 35mm F1.8 lens and it's working pretty great. I just hook it up with the USB-C cable and it shows up as a webcam. The only annoyance that I haven't been able to get around yet is switching batteries. There's a Kickstarter project[2] for a battery that is hot-swappable, but among those features it also allows you to just use the power while plugged in, which I'm eager to try out. I haven't tested the audio quality of the camera, so I can't say much about that. I've always just used my headset. I would expect it to be somewhere between meh and ok-ish. Of course you could invest in a proper mic plugged into the Camera[3]. I have it set up on a tripod behind my desk. One thing I have been considering is getting some kind of a monitor arm style setup for the Camera, but so far I haven't found such a product. The setup of course is quite expensive depending on the Camera, but I already had the camera and tripod since I do photography as a hobby, so I was pleasantly surprised when Canon came out with the webcam utility. Is it worth it? Probably not if you just want something that works all the time. I mostly use the camera to take photos, so I have to re-mount it every time I come back from shooting, and keep the batteries charged, etc. but people do notice and it's fun to see their reactions and getting accused of being a YouTuber every once in a while. [1] https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/self-help-center/eos-webcam-utility https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/se... [2] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/x-tra/the-camera-battery-re-invented https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/x-tra/the-camera-batter... [3] https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-shotgun-mic/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-shotgun-mic/
- leemailll 6y ago
  Have you try to use the max aperture, and let other enjoy the bokeh? ;-)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- iamacyborg 6y ago
  Fuji does something similar with their cameras. I can use their webcam software and get clean video output when I connect my Xt3 via usb to my pc or laptop. No need to purchase extra unnecessary dongles.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Manufacturers spouting specs like '4k' are deliberately misleading the public if the sensor and/or the lens aren't also upgraded. I vaguely remember reading about a video card that had more RAM than it was able to address.
- fuzzy2 6y ago
  You may be referring to the GeForce GTX 970. It had reduced bandwidth to parts of its RAM.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - 542458 6y ago
    Maybe the RX480? Many of the 4GB models sold were actually 8GB models with firmware locking them down. https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-480-4gb-to-8gb-memory-unlock.html https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-480-4gb-to-8...
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > Many of the 4GB models sold were actually 8GB models with firmware locking them down. Definitely not that; the concept was that you had a large amount of RAM you could advertise on the box, but the card was unable to use the RAM. You're describing the opposite, the card has a large amount of RAM that is advertised as a smaller amount.
bserge 6y ago
Canon has webcam software for their DSLR's, although I couldn't get 1080p output out of my 750D. Quality was great, though. You can also just use your phone's main camera, the quality is up there with rather expensive webcams (even for midrange phones these days), add some better lighting and you're set.
JansjoFromIkea 6y ago
Any idea if the EOS M is supported for this? Last I checked Magic Lantern had no webcam type functionality but that was ages ago. If it does that's a pretty great webcam for like £100 RE those chinese knockoff dongles, I got one for £8 off ebay, use it for Pi Zero stuff occasionally and the lag isn't bad at all tbh. I'd guess somewhere between 250ms and 500ms but it maybe gets worse at larger resolutions.
- adam-a 6y ago
  I have an EOS M and it works ok. I had to install a different version of Magic Lantern to get it to not auto shut off, and generally a lot of poking around in the menus. You can get battery replacement AC adapters quite cheaply and my cheap HDMI->USB works fairly well. Lag is not a problem but it introduces black bars on the left and right and in Google Meet my feed is horizontally squashed. Other video apps the picture is fine though.
sudosysgen 6y ago
I have a 7$ Chinese knockoff HDMI-USB dongle, it works perfectly well even in Linux. Quality is quite good.
- jacurtis 6y ago
  Just to add my own experience, I have a friend who had the Elgato Link and it died. He decided to give a $15 amazon one a try and he said it works "just as good" as the Elgato one. So I then bought my own $15 one (having never used Elgato before) and I can also say that it does the job. I don't know how to further qualify it, you expect it to convert HDMI into USB and it does it. The resulting quality is amazing. So it performs its function.
Thaxll 6y ago
Well I'm cusrious if you're $2k DSLR gives you a better image than a 150$ webcam on zoom, facebook, skype etc... ?
jobigoud 6y ago
Have you considered machine vision camera in your investigation?
tomaskafka 6y ago
> The only cost-viable methods to get 'broadcast quality' imagery for streaming/recording right now is to buy a second hand DLSR or mirrorless camera Erm, no. Camo Studio with iPhone XS I am now using has DSLR-awesome picture, above any webcam on the market. And iPhone's BPM for camera sensor and ISP is probably in 10s of dollars. I want to buy this from kickstarter yesterday :).

denimnerd42 6y ago

I have a similar setup but don't you find the latency to be bad? At least it's not good enough for video calls IMO. It's fine for streaming to an audience or recording.

vetinari 6y ago
With random chinese knock-off and GoPro 3, I had a latency of 10-11 frames when doing 60 fps stream. It was usable for video calls, but I had problems with reliability (old battery in Gopro, and even if it was permanently connected to power source, it charged only when I turned it on -- which usually was when I wanted to have a call).

piranha 6y ago

> you can get cheap china-knockoffs for about £12, I don't know how good they are. They are so-so. Well, they are much-much better than any webcam, of course, but 1080p is almost the same as 720p on them. So as a budget thingie it'll work, but Elgato's adapter is much better, of course.

coldtea 6y ago
>So as a budget thingie it'll work, but Elgato's adapter is much better, of course. I saw a video where Elgato Camlink opened up, is just a chinese card repackaged with the Elgato logo, 99% similar internally to the cheap knockoffs. Can't find it again to link it to...
- rasz 6y ago
  https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Elgato_CAM_LINK_4K https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Elgato_CAM_LINK_4K 8 layer pcb with custom fpga hardware, doesnt look all that cheap chinese knockoff to me
  - coldtea 6y ago
    You're right, I watched this youtube video on an expensive brand name item vs several chinese knockoffs and they had the same internals -- but it probably wasn't the Camlink then. Can't find the video atm, or remember what product it did show, but it was posted in the last 2-3 months and it concerned a similarly on-demand item -- and the "repackaging" brand was respected by creators...
Tepix 6y ago
It's converting a digital signal (HDMI) to another digital signal. Why should there be any quality loss even if it's a cheap chinese model?
- piranha 6y ago
  Well, because they don’t have enough processing power I guess? IDK, it’s hot all the time and image quality is lower than what I can get from a camera SD card.

aosaigh 6y ago

Great comment. Another few things to add to this if you are going for more broadcast quality rather than just Zoom calls: - The lens you use if crucial. A nice and fast prime portrait lens (20-50mm f1.4 or something) will make a huge difference with indoor light and give you nice bokeh/blurred background. - Good quality lighting is essential. El Gato have a good, but again expensive, key light you can use as your primary source of light, but you might need side-lights and back-lights too.

antonyh 6y ago

Rumour has it that the imitation 'Camlink' products overheat and cut out. Probably solvable with the addition of a heatsink if true.

gsich 6y ago

The cheap USB-HDMI is perfectly viable for using it as a webcam. Qualitywise you won't notice any difference through a highly compressed Zoom/Teams/Skype video. They can output 1080p30 or 720p60, which is again mostly irrelevant in the webcam situations.

antonyh 6y ago

I got the CamLink 4k, for use with a 4K camera (Sony AX33). Unfortunately, the HDMI out is only 1080P. So yeah while it works it doesn't feel like much of an upgrade over my aging Logitech C910.

kevincharm 6y ago

I use a similar setup with a Panasonic GH5 I already had, but I bought one of those €15 Chinese HDMI capture USB UVC cards [1]. These work surprisingly well, and I've had zero issues using them for ~4 hours back-to-back Zoom meetings on my MBP. They've also received some good reviews on YouTube [2]. For audio, I use my Airpods. Great setup for meetings. Latency is good enough IMO. -- [1]: https://www.amazon.nl/gp/product/B088ZTK56F https://www.amazon.nl/gp/product/B088ZTK56F [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U

Tepix 6y ago
Panasonic released a (beta) webcam software this year. It supports the GH5 and works well. Give it a try, it's free. https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumix_webcam_software.html https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumix_webcam... It's available for Windows and macOS. The Mac version seems to have more issues with various apps than the Windows version at the moment.

fluffy87 6y ago

I hooked a gopro this way. Their new drivers support using them as Webcams on macos and windows. Beer Webcam I’ve ever had.

ktpsns 6y ago
Is this related to newer firmware or so? Because I have a gopro and the usb stream quality is only very low, compared to the HD recording facilities of these devices. If you browse the web for this, you will find (again, as in the threads here) the recommendation to use a HDMI-to-USB converter to capture the high quality HDMI stream a gopro can emit.
Ballas 6y ago
> Beer Webcam I’ve ever had. Sounds like you have had quite a couple...
- ct0 6y ago
  these are trying times, ive had a couple web cans myself

arvinsim 6y ago

I tried to use the Elgato Camlink with my Macbook and Sony ala6400. But everytime I use it, the fans would ramp to a noisy level. Turns out that processing is still being done by the Macbook.

raegis 6y ago
I have the Elgato 4K and the Sony a6400 and my computer (NUC8 running Debian) does not overheat.
- arvinsim 6y ago
  Perhaps the NUC handles thermals a lot better than the laptop. I consistently get around 4-5k RPM when connecting with Elgato Camlink.

riho 6y ago

Finally made an account, just to reply to this. With newer Canon DSLR bodies you can use the Canon Webcam Utility[1] to directly get the video feed show up as a webcam, with just a USB cable. I've been using the EOS R as my webcam with the RF 35mm F1.8 lens and it's working pretty great. I just hook it up with the USB-C cable and it shows up as a webcam. The only annoyance that I haven't been able to get around yet is switching batteries. There's a Kickstarter project[2] for a battery that is hot-swappable, but among those features it also allows you to just use the power while plugged in, which I'm eager to try out. I haven't tested the audio quality of the camera, so I can't say much about that. I've always just used my headset. I would expect it to be somewhere between meh and ok-ish. Of course you could invest in a proper mic plugged into the Camera[3]. I have it set up on a tripod behind my desk. One thing I have been considering is getting some kind of a monitor arm style setup for the Camera, but so far I haven't found such a product. The setup of course is quite expensive depending on the Camera, but I already had the camera and tripod since I do photography as a hobby, so I was pleasantly surprised when Canon came out with the webcam utility. Is it worth it? Probably not if you just want something that works all the time. I mostly use the camera to take photos, so I have to re-mount it every time I come back from shooting, and keep the batteries charged, etc. but people do notice and it's fun to see their reactions and getting accused of being a YouTuber every once in a while. [1] https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/self-help-center/eos-webcam-utility https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/se... [2] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/x-tra/the-camera-battery-re-invented https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/x-tra/the-camera-batter... [3] https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-shotgun-mic/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-shotgun-mic/

leemailll 6y ago
Have you try to use the max aperture, and let other enjoy the bokeh? ;-)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
iamacyborg 6y ago
Fuji does something similar with their cameras. I can use their webcam software and get clean video output when I connect my Xt3 via usb to my pc or laptop. No need to purchase extra unnecessary dongles.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> Manufacturers spouting specs like '4k' are deliberately misleading the public if the sensor and/or the lens aren't also upgraded. I vaguely remember reading about a video card that had more RAM than it was able to address.

fuzzy2 6y ago
You may be referring to the GeForce GTX 970. It had reduced bandwidth to parts of its RAM.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- 542458 6y ago
  Maybe the RX480? Many of the 4GB models sold were actually 8GB models with firmware locking them down. https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-480-4gb-to-8gb-memory-unlock.html https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-480-4gb-to-8...
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > Many of the 4GB models sold were actually 8GB models with firmware locking them down. Definitely not that; the concept was that you had a large amount of RAM you could advertise on the box, but the card was unable to use the RAM. You're describing the opposite, the card has a large amount of RAM that is advertised as a smaller amount.

bserge 6y ago

Canon has webcam software for their DSLR's, although I couldn't get 1080p output out of my 750D. Quality was great, though. You can also just use your phone's main camera, the quality is up there with rather expensive webcams (even for midrange phones these days), add some better lighting and you're set.

JansjoFromIkea 6y ago

Any idea if the EOS M is supported for this? Last I checked Magic Lantern had no webcam type functionality but that was ages ago. If it does that's a pretty great webcam for like £100 RE those chinese knockoff dongles, I got one for £8 off ebay, use it for Pi Zero stuff occasionally and the lag isn't bad at all tbh. I'd guess somewhere between 250ms and 500ms but it maybe gets worse at larger resolutions.

adam-a 6y ago
I have an EOS M and it works ok. I had to install a different version of Magic Lantern to get it to not auto shut off, and generally a lot of poking around in the menus. You can get battery replacement AC adapters quite cheaply and my cheap HDMI->USB works fairly well. Lag is not a problem but it introduces black bars on the left and right and in Google Meet my feed is horizontally squashed. Other video apps the picture is fine though.

sudosysgen 6y ago

I have a 7$ Chinese knockoff HDMI-USB dongle, it works perfectly well even in Linux. Quality is quite good.

jacurtis 6y ago
Just to add my own experience, I have a friend who had the Elgato Link and it died. He decided to give a $15 amazon one a try and he said it works "just as good" as the Elgato one. So I then bought my own $15 one (having never used Elgato before) and I can also say that it does the job. I don't know how to further qualify it, you expect it to convert HDMI into USB and it does it. The resulting quality is amazing. So it performs its function.

Thaxll 6y ago

Well I'm cusrious if you're $2k DSLR gives you a better image than a 150$ webcam on zoom, facebook, skype etc... ?

jobigoud 6y ago

Have you considered machine vision camera in your investigation?

tomaskafka 6y ago

> The only cost-viable methods to get 'broadcast quality' imagery for streaming/recording right now is to buy a second hand DLSR or mirrorless camera Erm, no. Camo Studio with iPhone XS I am now using has DSLR-awesome picture, above any webcam on the market. And iPhone's BPM for camera sensor and ISP is probably in 10s of dollars. I want to buy this from kickstarter yesterday :).