4 ms·

The use of the term "nanoparticle", is going to freak people out when PEG (polyethylene glycol) is one of the most used substances in the world.

sneak 6y ago
It's not very commonly used internally, however.
- gumby 6y ago
  It sure is, as it's on the GRAS list. I used it as an inert carrier in an injectable drug I worked on a decade ago and everyone else on the project had used it in other projects before. It's a polymer so is synthesized and then separated into different molecular weights. I believe that only some of which are actually GRAS. I don't know about the tiny chains discussed here.
- White_Wolf 6y ago
  If I remember this well It's one of 2 main components of electronic cig liquid. Not sure what the chemical reaction does to it when it turn into vapour though.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    This is correct, the other is glycerine ("VG"). PEG ("PG") is also used in food by the way. And yeah as far as I know nobody knows what the "vaping" process does yet.
- Asparagirl 6y ago
  Oh yes it is. Polyethylene glycol is sold widely as Miralax! Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular.
  - stevesimmons 6y ago
    > Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular. Do they have a medical condition or old age? Or just don't eat enough vegetables and fibre?
    - Asparagirl 6y ago
      Depending on the family member(s), it’s autism and mild developmental delays with their commonly-associated GI issues and lowered gut motility (and semi-inflexible eating patterns leading to a not-very-balanced diet), and/or good old “Jewish tummy” which while technically not in the DSM is still super-common with its associated constant GI issues and a bunch of relatives on both sides of the family who have developed full-blown IBS and/or Crohn’s disease.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
  Actually it is the main component of many (very successful) drug delivery systems.
akiselev 6y ago
Yeah PEG allergies are a nonstory. That said, actual nanoparticles should usually give people pause. Nanotoxicity is a poorly understood subject that only recently started getting some of the attention it deserves. Usually, when people talk about nanoparticles in context, they're made up of rigid or semi-rigid structures (which PEG is not) that can turn into asbestos-like carcinogens after a little wear and tear.
- Puts 6y ago
  How can it be a nonstory when the experts in the article are so divided? One said they had to stop trails with PEG drugs because someone died, and another says they are not the cause of allergic reactions at all, while a third says yes they are but they are triggered by different antibodies. Seems like we actually don't know much about this at all then?
  - akiselev 6y ago
    A cursory look at the literature [1] shows five confirmed recent cases of PEG allergy. PEG is used all over the place: taken internally in several OTC laxatives, applied externally in cosmetics and personal lubricant, vaporized and inhaled in electronic cigarettes, and as a solvent in many industrial processes. If PEG allergies were a serious concern, it would have risen about the noise floor a long time ago since it causes an acute reaction. It's definitely not worth stopping clinical trials for five total confirmed cases in the medical literature, especially if those trials target a global emergency like COVID. For comparison: you'd get at least five confirmed cases of peanut allergies just by spraying down a single decent sized elementary school with peanut dust. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213219820310072 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221321982...
    - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      > It's definitely not worth stopping clinical trials Did anyone suggest this?
edf13 6y ago
Exactly - the conspiracy crowd are going to stir up theories of nanobots!
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  There are charlatans making a lot of money selling conspiracy theory content.
hilbert42 6y ago
I'm surprised that high-profile AAAS/Science has made a relatively big deal out of this story due to heightened sensitivities surrounding the vaccine and the fact that anti-vaxxers are looking at anything and everything to criticize the vaccination program. I'm the last one to advocate censorship, especially so with regards to science reporting, but this article may have been better presented as a small sub-article or news footnote (that is, unless there's serious merit to the story). Please note, I'm not advocating censorship here, I am in fact advocating the story receive commensurately fewer column inches in line with what it actually deserves. What is particularly worrying about the PEG matter is that it won't take long for the naysayers to try to associate it with its mate of similar name [sans 'poly'] — I'm not even game to mention it for fear of it being indexed, etc. No doubt, however, others will and that'll be and unwanted setback.
- verroq 6y ago
  Censoring this article will give the anti-vaxx crowd all the ammo they want.
  - hilbert42 6y ago
    Are you happy now? It's a shame people don't actually read what is written!
    - verroq 6y ago
      What’s the point of this comment? Plenty of people unironically believe the earth is flat.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  A lot more educated people here to disprove those theories and reduce misinformation on other platforms by readers here.
aksss 6y ago
“Teutonic Vaccine Syndrome”

sneak 6y ago

It's not very commonly used internally, however.

gumby 6y ago
It sure is, as it's on the GRAS list. I used it as an inert carrier in an injectable drug I worked on a decade ago and everyone else on the project had used it in other projects before. It's a polymer so is synthesized and then separated into different molecular weights. I believe that only some of which are actually GRAS. I don't know about the tiny chains discussed here.
White_Wolf 6y ago
If I remember this well It's one of 2 main components of electronic cig liquid. Not sure what the chemical reaction does to it when it turn into vapour though.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  This is correct, the other is glycerine ("VG"). PEG ("PG") is also used in food by the way. And yeah as far as I know nobody knows what the "vaping" process does yet.
Asparagirl 6y ago
Oh yes it is. Polyethylene glycol is sold widely as Miralax! Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular.
- stevesimmons 6y ago
  > Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular. Do they have a medical condition or old age? Or just don't eat enough vegetables and fibre?
  - Asparagirl 6y ago
    Depending on the family member(s), it’s autism and mild developmental delays with their commonly-associated GI issues and lowered gut motility (and semi-inflexible eating patterns leading to a not-very-balanced diet), and/or good old “Jewish tummy” which while technically not in the DSM is still super-common with its associated constant GI issues and a bunch of relatives on both sides of the family who have developed full-blown IBS and/or Crohn’s disease.
1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
Actually it is the main component of many (very successful) drug delivery systems.

akiselev 6y ago

Yeah PEG allergies are a nonstory. That said, actual nanoparticles should usually give people pause. Nanotoxicity is a poorly understood subject that only recently started getting some of the attention it deserves. Usually, when people talk about nanoparticles in context, they're made up of rigid or semi-rigid structures (which PEG is not) that can turn into asbestos-like carcinogens after a little wear and tear.

Puts 6y ago
How can it be a nonstory when the experts in the article are so divided? One said they had to stop trails with PEG drugs because someone died, and another says they are not the cause of allergic reactions at all, while a third says yes they are but they are triggered by different antibodies. Seems like we actually don't know much about this at all then?
- akiselev 6y ago
  A cursory look at the literature [1] shows five confirmed recent cases of PEG allergy. PEG is used all over the place: taken internally in several OTC laxatives, applied externally in cosmetics and personal lubricant, vaporized and inhaled in electronic cigarettes, and as a solvent in many industrial processes. If PEG allergies were a serious concern, it would have risen about the noise floor a long time ago since it causes an acute reaction. It's definitely not worth stopping clinical trials for five total confirmed cases in the medical literature, especially if those trials target a global emergency like COVID. For comparison: you'd get at least five confirmed cases of peanut allergies just by spraying down a single decent sized elementary school with peanut dust. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213219820310072 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221321982...
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    > It's definitely not worth stopping clinical trials Did anyone suggest this?

edf13 6y ago

Exactly - the conspiracy crowd are going to stir up theories of nanobots!

29athrowaway 6y ago
There are charlatans making a lot of money selling conspiracy theory content.

hilbert42 6y ago

I'm surprised that high-profile AAAS/Science has made a relatively big deal out of this story due to heightened sensitivities surrounding the vaccine and the fact that anti-vaxxers are looking at anything and everything to criticize the vaccination program. I'm the last one to advocate censorship, especially so with regards to science reporting, but this article may have been better presented as a small sub-article or news footnote (that is, unless there's serious merit to the story). Please note, I'm not advocating censorship here, I am in fact advocating the story receive commensurately fewer column inches in line with what it actually deserves. What is particularly worrying about the PEG matter is that it won't take long for the naysayers to try to associate it with its mate of similar name [sans 'poly'] — I'm not even game to mention it for fear of it being indexed, etc. No doubt, however, others will and that'll be and unwanted setback.

verroq 6y ago
Censoring this article will give the anti-vaxx crowd all the ammo they want.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  Are you happy now? It's a shame people don't actually read what is written!
  - verroq 6y ago
    What’s the point of this comment? Plenty of people unironically believe the earth is flat.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
A lot more educated people here to disprove those theories and reduce misinformation on other platforms by readers here.

aksss 6y ago

“Teutonic Vaccine Syndrome”