3 ms·

Many other pharma companies do this, it is an activity basically encouraged by the fda orphaned drug program. Also keep in mind the dynamics of how people pay

Many other pharma companies do this, it is an activity basically encouraged by the fda orphaned drug program. Also keep in mind the dynamics of how people pay for drugs in the us. For the most part the victim is insurance companies, and in a diluted fashion healthy americans forced to buy health insurance. If you're sick and financially needy, there are usually ways to obtain the drug without the 56x markup.

uptown 6y ago
"If you're sick and financially needy, there are usually ways to obtain the drug without the 56x markup." Which is subsidized by the customers of insurance companies that do pay the 56x markup, which are funded by the employers and individuals who pay for private insurance or tax dollars that pay for medicare. There's no free lunch.
- dnautics 6y ago
  Is that not what I said?
howlgarnish 6y ago
You're mixing up your concepts here: orphaned drugs are those that would not be profitable to produce without a subsidy. The drugs Shkreli acquired were profitable and still produced, but out of patent (so they were cheap) and without an approved generic version (so there was no existing competition). Legally, it was above board, and financially, it was sensible regulatory arbitrage. Morally, though, it was reprehensible.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dnautics 6y ago
  Sorry you're right, I had the terminology wrong. It's abandoned, not orphaned, and the specific program is FDA NCIE. IIRC this program grants advertising exclusivity (weaker than patent exclusivity) as a carrot to give companies "IP protection-lite" in exchange for re-testing old drugs under the FDA phase flow.
1000units 6y ago
Why shouldn't a pharmaceutical company with the expertise to identify and acquire an undervalued drug be rewarded? Aren't these precisely the people who deserve to be granted the privilege to allocate further capital? That's the whole point of capitalism, right? That's what HackerNews is all about? If there's some exceptional nuance here, we should explore this rigorously. Drug design isn't free. That R&D money is coming from somewhere. Where's it come from in your world?
- howlgarnish 6y ago
  Shkreli's company didn't "design" squat, it bought existing drugs where the patent period had already expired and the R&D costs were paid off. Also, funnily enough, in an actual capitalist environment you couldn't do this, because a competitor would immediately undercut you. However, the drugs market is heavily regulated, and Skhreli exploited the fact that it would take years and cost a lot of money for any putative competitor to get a generic version through FDA approvals.
  - 1000units 6y ago
    You're talking about this one drug in question, Daraprim. He actively funded the development of several new drugs you've never heard of, and sending Shkreli to prison was literally a crime against humanity. I don't think you know anything about Shkreli you haven't read in neatly packaged hit pieces.
    - howlgarnish 6y ago
      He pulled the same trick with Thiona, Chenodal, Vecamyl and probably more -- it was on the record as his own company Turing's strategy after all. As noted, this was all legal and I agree that he was railroaded to jail for essentially completely unrelated wrongdoings, but there's no universe where he's not a scumbag.
      - 1000units 6y ago
        This is a very odd characterization! Looking at Turing's 2014 10-K, I see this as a listed strategy: Focus on developing products to treat rare diseases characterized by severe unmet medical needs. I also see several preclinical programs and product candidates. You must have missed those. Odd case, very strange.

uptown 6y ago

"If you're sick and financially needy, there are usually ways to obtain the drug without the 56x markup." Which is subsidized by the customers of insurance companies that do pay the 56x markup, which are funded by the employers and individuals who pay for private insurance or tax dollars that pay for medicare. There's no free lunch.

dnautics 6y ago
Is that not what I said?

howlgarnish 6y ago

You're mixing up your concepts here: orphaned drugs are those that would not be profitable to produce without a subsidy. The drugs Shkreli acquired were profitable and still produced, but out of patent (so they were cheap) and without an approved generic version (so there was no existing competition). Legally, it was above board, and financially, it was sensible regulatory arbitrage. Morally, though, it was reprehensible.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dnautics 6y ago
Sorry you're right, I had the terminology wrong. It's abandoned, not orphaned, and the specific program is FDA NCIE. IIRC this program grants advertising exclusivity (weaker than patent exclusivity) as a carrot to give companies "IP protection-lite" in exchange for re-testing old drugs under the FDA phase flow.

1000units 6y ago

Why shouldn't a pharmaceutical company with the expertise to identify and acquire an undervalued drug be rewarded? Aren't these precisely the people who deserve to be granted the privilege to allocate further capital? That's the whole point of capitalism, right? That's what HackerNews is all about? If there's some exceptional nuance here, we should explore this rigorously. Drug design isn't free. That R&D money is coming from somewhere. Where's it come from in your world?

howlgarnish 6y ago
Shkreli's company didn't "design" squat, it bought existing drugs where the patent period had already expired and the R&D costs were paid off. Also, funnily enough, in an actual capitalist environment you couldn't do this, because a competitor would immediately undercut you. However, the drugs market is heavily regulated, and Skhreli exploited the fact that it would take years and cost a lot of money for any putative competitor to get a generic version through FDA approvals.
- 1000units 6y ago
  You're talking about this one drug in question, Daraprim. He actively funded the development of several new drugs you've never heard of, and sending Shkreli to prison was literally a crime against humanity. I don't think you know anything about Shkreli you haven't read in neatly packaged hit pieces.
  - howlgarnish 6y ago
    He pulled the same trick with Thiona, Chenodal, Vecamyl and probably more -- it was on the record as his own company Turing's strategy after all. As noted, this was all legal and I agree that he was railroaded to jail for essentially completely unrelated wrongdoings, but there's no universe where he's not a scumbag.
    - 1000units 6y ago
      This is a very odd characterization! Looking at Turing's 2014 10-K, I see this as a listed strategy: Focus on developing products to treat rare diseases characterized by severe unmet medical needs. I also see several preclinical programs and product candidates. You must have missed those. Odd case, very strange.