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No. What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. As renewables and battery tech get cheaper, we'll see bigger gains across the board. The "evil banke

No. What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. As renewables and battery tech get cheaper, we'll see bigger gains across the board. The "evil bankers" stuff is mostly a just so story to explain away the slowing of real growth for the last 40 years.

pdonis 6y ago
> What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. Only temporarily. Energy today, adjusted for inflation, is actually quite a bit cheaper now than it was even before the early 70s oil crisis.
- weeksie 6y ago
  Nope [1] Lord grant me the confidence of a HN commentor talking about economics :/ [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC,
  - aaronblohowiak 6y ago
    Is this graph in nominal price or inflation-adjusted price? It is not obvious from the source.
    - weeksie 6y ago
      Jesus fucking Christ
      - aaronblohowiak 6y ago
        I asked a question to learn more, please be nicer.
        weeksie 6y ago
        Extraordinary
    - pdonis 6y ago
      Given what I found in the link I posted in response, I think the answer is "nominal".
  - pdonis 6y ago
    Evidently my previous guess (in another exchange upthread) that the Fed data was adjusted for inflation was incorrect. Here's an inflation adjusted chart of crude oil prices: https://inflationdata.com/articles/charts/inflation-adjusted-oil-prices-chart/ https://inflationdata.com/articles/charts/inflation-adjusted... So, not "Nope". Also, crude oil is not all there is to "energy". Here are a couple of other charts: Electricity prices 1960-2011: https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=ptb0810 https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=p... I was somewhat off about the peak due to the "energy crisis", it was actually in 1983. Gasoline prices 1929-2015: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2015 https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-a...
    - weeksie 6y ago
      Still nope. What you’ve done is a very elaborate exercise in point missing, not that I’m surprised. Take a look at that chart again and do some thinking. There’s a reason for using nominal prices to illustrate what happened after the oil shock. The flat line that suddenly begins to jump around like a spastic house cat illustrates a very specific point. Anyway, I should know better than to engage with you people. This comment section is nothing if not predictable.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. Well, sure, but not durably so; the most dramatic examples being a pair of transitory geopolitical events producing short-term supply shocks.
- weeksie 6y ago
  No. This graph puts it in better perspective. Why comment with so much certainty when you clearly didn't check? God I hate this place. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC,

pdonis 6y ago

> What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. Only temporarily. Energy today, adjusted for inflation, is actually quite a bit cheaper now than it was even before the early 70s oil crisis.

weeksie 6y ago
Nope [1] Lord grant me the confidence of a HN commentor talking about economics :/ [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC,
- aaronblohowiak 6y ago
  Is this graph in nominal price or inflation-adjusted price? It is not obvious from the source.
  - weeksie 6y ago
    Jesus fucking Christ
    - aaronblohowiak 6y ago
      I asked a question to learn more, please be nicer.
      - weeksie 6y ago
        Extraordinary
  - pdonis 6y ago
    Given what I found in the link I posted in response, I think the answer is "nominal".
- pdonis 6y ago
  Evidently my previous guess (in another exchange upthread) that the Fed data was adjusted for inflation was incorrect. Here's an inflation adjusted chart of crude oil prices: https://inflationdata.com/articles/charts/inflation-adjusted-oil-prices-chart/ https://inflationdata.com/articles/charts/inflation-adjusted... So, not "Nope". Also, crude oil is not all there is to "energy". Here are a couple of other charts: Electricity prices 1960-2011: https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=ptb0810 https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=p... I was somewhat off about the peak due to the "energy crisis", it was actually in 1983. Gasoline prices 1929-2015: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2015 https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-a...
  - weeksie 6y ago
    Still nope. What you’ve done is a very elaborate exercise in point missing, not that I’m surprised. Take a look at that chart again and do some thinking. There’s a reason for using nominal prices to illustrate what happened after the oil shock. The flat line that suddenly begins to jump around like a spastic house cat illustrates a very specific point. Anyway, I should know better than to engage with you people. This comment section is nothing if not predictable.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> What happened was that in the 70s energy got expensive. Well, sure, but not durably so; the most dramatic examples being a pair of transitory geopolitical events producing short-term supply shocks.

weeksie 6y ago
No. This graph puts it in better perspective. Why comment with so much certainty when you clearly didn't check? God I hate this place. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?id=WTISPLC,