4 ms·

Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians, California in particular. Some areas in Orange County have blocks before cross walks, or cro

Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians, California in particular. Some areas in Orange County have blocks before cross walks, or cross walks only on one side of the street so you had to make the right decision a block ago about which side of the street to be on! Strip malls seemed designed to have people drive the 1k feet between businesses rather than having accessible walking. With city planning focused on driving you start to realize why pedestrians can behave so badly? If you're talking specifically about urban cities, I still bet Japan/Germany have been urban planning for sidewalks which encourages "good behavior".

nineplay 6y ago
> Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians Exactly, which is why the decriminalization of jaywalking in those cities is a terrible idea. Orange County isn't going to be redesigned, so more jaywalkers means more pedestrian deaths.
- marricks 6y ago
  "Hey we made an awful system many people can't follow, let's keep them criminalized or more bad stuff could happen." No option is perfect, but it's layering unfairness on unfairness, ESPECIALLY considering that such laws are often selectively enforced.
armenarmen 6y ago
I remember being in Kreutzberg in the dead of night with a bunch of other punks and them mohawks and and all waiting for the green man. Blew my mind
bigbubba 6y ago
I don't think I've ever seen an American strip mall without a wide sidewalk running in front of every business on the strip. The sidewalk is such an integral component of a strip mall, it sounds like what you're describing isn't a strip mall at all. And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk.
- marricks 6y ago
  > And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk. I think this reflects a lot of comments, "American's are lazy" and "Look at this german punks walking and respecting traffic laws!" Is the argument US is just inherently lazy? Could there be something else at play? I think it's just that when a use case isn't a main focus of design those users will be stuck trying to hack the system or having a poor experience. USA isn't designed for walkers most places, those people will behave "badly" because of it. Also, yes there are strip malls that bad, I can show one but then we'll be having pedantic arguments over "hey if you walk an extra 600 feet you have a sidewalk!" or something. Like, even the idea of a strip mall inherently is car centric, with most square footage devoted to parking and who wants to walk (or even drive!) through a parking lot.
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    > Is the argument US is just inherently lazy? If the shoe fits... I've seen too many young slightly chubby people coasting around on mobility scooters at Walmart instead of walking a few hundred meters to think laziness isn't a strong component to this sort of behavior.
    - marricks 6y ago
      You're only thinking one level deep, what causes the laziness. My argument is US society actively encourages it on multiple levels starting from just the design of our cities.
- rconti 6y ago
  Walking TO the strip mall, not walking across the storefronts. Strip malls typically have awful pedestrian accommodations in the parking lot; there's often no "safe" way to get from the street to the stores.

nineplay 6y ago

> Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians Exactly, which is why the decriminalization of jaywalking in those cities is a terrible idea. Orange County isn't going to be redesigned, so more jaywalkers means more pedestrian deaths.

marricks 6y ago
"Hey we made an awful system many people can't follow, let's keep them criminalized or more bad stuff could happen." No option is perfect, but it's layering unfairness on unfairness, ESPECIALLY considering that such laws are often selectively enforced.

armenarmen 6y ago

I remember being in Kreutzberg in the dead of night with a bunch of other punks and them mohawks and and all waiting for the green man. Blew my mind

bigbubba 6y ago

I don't think I've ever seen an American strip mall without a wide sidewalk running in front of every business on the strip. The sidewalk is such an integral component of a strip mall, it sounds like what you're describing isn't a strip mall at all. And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk.

marricks 6y ago
> And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk. I think this reflects a lot of comments, "American's are lazy" and "Look at this german punks walking and respecting traffic laws!" Is the argument US is just inherently lazy? Could there be something else at play? I think it's just that when a use case isn't a main focus of design those users will be stuck trying to hack the system or having a poor experience. USA isn't designed for walkers most places, those people will behave "badly" because of it. Also, yes there are strip malls that bad, I can show one but then we'll be having pedantic arguments over "hey if you walk an extra 600 feet you have a sidewalk!" or something. Like, even the idea of a strip mall inherently is car centric, with most square footage devoted to parking and who wants to walk (or even drive!) through a parking lot.
- bigbubba 6y ago
  > Is the argument US is just inherently lazy? If the shoe fits... I've seen too many young slightly chubby people coasting around on mobility scooters at Walmart instead of walking a few hundred meters to think laziness isn't a strong component to this sort of behavior.
  - marricks 6y ago
    You're only thinking one level deep, what causes the laziness. My argument is US society actively encourages it on multiple levels starting from just the design of our cities.
rconti 6y ago
Walking TO the strip mall, not walking across the storefronts. Strip malls typically have awful pedestrian accommodations in the parking lot; there's often no "safe" way to get from the street to the stores.