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There would seem to be a pretty narrow range of companies that this would actually work for. If you're a pet food manufacturer that needs a website, you're pro

There would seem to be a pretty narrow range of companies that this would actually work for. If you're a pet food manufacturer that needs a website, you're probably not going to find anybody who's really stoked about catfood and also knows Rails. If you're Valve, you'll have no problem finding 10,000 kids who really want to write video games, none of which can code their way out of a sack. So it would seem to follow that if you're looking to hire developers, you should start off by looking for people who are actually good at writing code. Or put another way, by looking at credentials. It'd be cool if it worked the way the author describes, but for most situations I just don't see it happening.

deleted 15y ago
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mattdeboard 15y ago
I heartily disagree. Who says a company that makes a boring/uninteresting product isn't solving challenging, interesting development problems? I mean, I hope it's not the case that the only companies solving interesting problems are the ones with an awesome product that everyone wants to work at.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  Very true. I just quit my job to start a fashion startup. I really don't care about fashion, apart from sleeping with the occasional model (hasn't happened yet, but I'm hoping). On the other hand, building an AI system that is capable of learning about fashion is pretty interesting.
dtby 15y ago
It'd be cool if it worked the way the author describes, but for most situations I just don't see it happening. That is because you have too narrowly described "most situations." "Most situations" is, sincerely, "we want to do This Thing. We think there is money in This Thing." If you are not interested in doing This Thing you will NOT be a good fit. It's comforting to believe that as coders we can do anything. This largely true. On the other hand, if we don't believe in it, we pretty much don't actually do it. That's the crappy side (for the business-types) of the self-actualization of developers.
v21 15y ago
A lovely interview with Gabe Newell, touching on their hiring processes, and studio management: http://www.develop-online.net/features/1192/Gabe-Newell-on-Valve http://www.develop-online.net/features/1192/Gabe-Newell-on-V... I think what it comes down to, is if you're Valve, you get to have your cake and eat it too. You get to hire the best, and they're all increbibly motivated to make the things you're making. "I think it’s obvious, everybody here could get a job in ten minutes. People like [someone walks into the door, it’s Jay Stelly, holding two coffees], people like Jay! Who brings me coffee. Jay is the most senior engineer at the company [laughs]. And he saw that I didn’t have coffee! There are probably at least five publishers he could call and get a $30 million project in an hour if he wanted to. The reason he’s here isn’t because he has no other option, he’s here because he can work with the best people we have. It’s here at Valve where his talent can make the biggest impact and he doesn’t have to waste time rolling his eyes at stupid things the marketing and management teams are doing."
- stcredzero 15y ago
  It’s here at Valve where his talent can make the biggest impact and he doesn’t have to waste time rolling his eyes at stupid things the marketing and management teams are doing. So, one secret to success is marketing and management that doesn't cause developer eye-rolling? This amounts to marketing and management that can actually communicate with devs. (And devs who aren't so one-dimensional that marketing/management can talk to them.)
  - cppsnob 15y ago
    The most important part of marketing-dev collaboration is getting the two to have any respect at all for the other one's work and have a willingness to learn about it. After that point, communication seems to become a lot easier. As a side note, all major failures I've been familiar with have toxic marketing-dev relationships, so it's worth everyone's time to make this work.
goblin89 15y ago
> If you're a pet food manufacturer that needs a website, ...then you better hire somebody who will analyze your business requirements, tell you what's better for you (how to place your company on the web, how to integrate site maintenance into your business workflow), then maybe help you hire Rails developer, and perhaps conduct project management. Otherwise, agree with you. If you want a site for your company, hire somebody who is interested in helping businesses build their online presence, not just a catfood freak.
- geon 15y ago
  Why should a pet food manufacturer build their website in-house? I'd hire a good agency to do it for me, letting me focus on my core business.
stonemetal 15y ago
Find somebody like patio11 who is passionate about web businesses not necessarily the product.
skybrian 15y ago
Bad example. You're not going to find someone stoked about catfood, but I think you could easily find someone who loves their cat and cares about nutrition. People who love animals aren't hard to find.
hammock 15y ago
It's not about interest in the product, it's about interest in the job.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mattdeboard 15y ago

I heartily disagree. Who says a company that makes a boring/uninteresting product isn't solving challenging, interesting development problems? I mean, I hope it's not the case that the only companies solving interesting problems are the ones with an awesome product that everyone wants to work at.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
yummyfajitas 15y ago
Very true. I just quit my job to start a fashion startup. I really don't care about fashion, apart from sleeping with the occasional model (hasn't happened yet, but I'm hoping). On the other hand, building an AI system that is capable of learning about fashion is pretty interesting.

dtby 15y ago

It'd be cool if it worked the way the author describes, but for most situations I just don't see it happening. That is because you have too narrowly described "most situations." "Most situations" is, sincerely, "we want to do This Thing. We think there is money in This Thing." If you are not interested in doing This Thing you will NOT be a good fit. It's comforting to believe that as coders we can do anything. This largely true. On the other hand, if we don't believe in it, we pretty much don't actually do it. That's the crappy side (for the business-types) of the self-actualization of developers.

v21 15y ago

A lovely interview with Gabe Newell, touching on their hiring processes, and studio management: http://www.develop-online.net/features/1192/Gabe-Newell-on-Valve http://www.develop-online.net/features/1192/Gabe-Newell-on-V... I think what it comes down to, is if you're Valve, you get to have your cake and eat it too. You get to hire the best, and they're all increbibly motivated to make the things you're making. "I think it’s obvious, everybody here could get a job in ten minutes. People like [someone walks into the door, it’s Jay Stelly, holding two coffees], people like Jay! Who brings me coffee. Jay is the most senior engineer at the company [laughs]. And he saw that I didn’t have coffee! There are probably at least five publishers he could call and get a $30 million project in an hour if he wanted to. The reason he’s here isn’t because he has no other option, he’s here because he can work with the best people we have. It’s here at Valve where his talent can make the biggest impact and he doesn’t have to waste time rolling his eyes at stupid things the marketing and management teams are doing."

stcredzero 15y ago
It’s here at Valve where his talent can make the biggest impact and he doesn’t have to waste time rolling his eyes at stupid things the marketing and management teams are doing. So, one secret to success is marketing and management that doesn't cause developer eye-rolling? This amounts to marketing and management that can actually communicate with devs. (And devs who aren't so one-dimensional that marketing/management can talk to them.)
- cppsnob 15y ago
  The most important part of marketing-dev collaboration is getting the two to have any respect at all for the other one's work and have a willingness to learn about it. After that point, communication seems to become a lot easier. As a side note, all major failures I've been familiar with have toxic marketing-dev relationships, so it's worth everyone's time to make this work.

goblin89 15y ago

> If you're a pet food manufacturer that needs a website, ...then you better hire somebody who will analyze your business requirements, tell you what's better for you (how to place your company on the web, how to integrate site maintenance into your business workflow), then maybe help you hire Rails developer, and perhaps conduct project management. Otherwise, agree with you. If you want a site for your company, hire somebody who is interested in helping businesses build their online presence, not just a catfood freak.

geon 15y ago
Why should a pet food manufacturer build their website in-house? I'd hire a good agency to do it for me, letting me focus on my core business.

stonemetal 15y ago

Find somebody like patio11 who is passionate about web businesses not necessarily the product.

skybrian 15y ago

Bad example. You're not going to find someone stoked about catfood, but I think you could easily find someone who loves their cat and cares about nutrition. People who love animals aren't hard to find.

hammock 15y ago

It's not about interest in the product, it's about interest in the job.