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I have no great job and I am paying more than 50% in taxes, including health care (not an insurance, but a payroll tax) that I get almost nothing from. That gre

I have no great job and I am paying more than 50% in taxes, including health care (not an insurance, but a payroll tax) that I get almost nothing from. That great change described in the article is bringing poor services to everyone, that is the end of it - I saw it in Eastern Europe, I saw it in Western Europe, but people don't want to talk about it. I live in Eastern Europe, decades in a socialist country and decades in a capitalist one, but all with socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize.

gotostatement 6y ago
> socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize I can't understand this argument when Canada, England, France, Israel, and many other countries already have healthcare that is totally free to people at the point of service, and people rave about it. Can you explain why you still think it's utopian when it already exists?
- AdrianB1 6y ago
  Because of limited resources in Canada they had waiting times of several years (Google can point to multiple sources), UK or Nederlands a few months (I have friends working as doctors in these countries) or, in Eastern Europe, you need to get your own drugs from home because the hospital does not have it. With the perceived "free healthcare" the use increases a lot and the limited resources cannot scale up to infinite, so you either have a very long wait time or get the almost nothing left. This is the situation in most of countries with this system. It is mathematically impossible to get what you dream of. In countries like USA the demand is heavily filtered by prices, so people get what they afford to, if you take the filters out you will be left with nothing very fast. I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; here, everybody is equally screwed. The only thing that works well here is giving birth, that is free, you can cover that by the state or federal in US too, but that's about the limit.
  - henrikschroder 6y ago
    > I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; This is the temporarily embarrassed millionaire argument. The system absolutely sucks for you right now, but you're putting up with that, because one day, ONE GLORIOUS DAY, in the future, when you are filthy rich, you want to be able to skip all the queues. (There are plenty of countries with socialized healthcare that has a parallel private healthcare system that allows you to pay more to receive better/faster/customized care, so that's not actually an argument.)
  - gotostatement 6y ago
    well it's your word against that of many other people I've seen raving about their system. how about a reliable source that says that people are unhappy with it?
    - AdrianB1 6y ago
      If you don't want to search, try this: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2018 https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wa.... Or on camera here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw And there are more.
      - gotostatement 6y ago
        your sources are a conservative thinktank, and noted bigot and liar Steven Crowder https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/ https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians... - Canadians Overwhelmingly Support Public Health Care https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/public-satisfaction-nhs https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/public-satisfaction-nh... - 60% public satisfaction with NHS https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2071992/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2071992/ - "US has highest dissatisfaction with health care" (out of 7 industrialized countries they asked: Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States)

gotostatement 6y ago

> socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize I can't understand this argument when Canada, England, France, Israel, and many other countries already have healthcare that is totally free to people at the point of service, and people rave about it. Can you explain why you still think it's utopian when it already exists?

AdrianB1 6y ago
Because of limited resources in Canada they had waiting times of several years (Google can point to multiple sources), UK or Nederlands a few months (I have friends working as doctors in these countries) or, in Eastern Europe, you need to get your own drugs from home because the hospital does not have it. With the perceived "free healthcare" the use increases a lot and the limited resources cannot scale up to infinite, so you either have a very long wait time or get the almost nothing left. This is the situation in most of countries with this system. It is mathematically impossible to get what you dream of. In countries like USA the demand is heavily filtered by prices, so people get what they afford to, if you take the filters out you will be left with nothing very fast. I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; here, everybody is equally screwed. The only thing that works well here is giving birth, that is free, you can cover that by the state or federal in US too, but that's about the limit.
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  > I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; This is the temporarily embarrassed millionaire argument. The system absolutely sucks for you right now, but you're putting up with that, because one day, ONE GLORIOUS DAY, in the future, when you are filthy rich, you want to be able to skip all the queues. (There are plenty of countries with socialized healthcare that has a parallel private healthcare system that allows you to pay more to receive better/faster/customized care, so that's not actually an argument.)
- gotostatement 6y ago
  well it's your word against that of many other people I've seen raving about their system. how about a reliable source that says that people are unhappy with it?
  - AdrianB1 6y ago
    If you don't want to search, try this: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2018 https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wa.... Or on camera here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw And there are more.
    - gotostatement 6y ago
      your sources are a conservative thinktank, and noted bigot and liar Steven Crowder https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/ https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians... - Canadians Overwhelmingly Support Public Health Care https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/public-satisfaction-nhs https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/public-satisfaction-nh... - 60% public satisfaction with NHS https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2071992/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2071992/ - "US has highest dissatisfaction with health care" (out of 7 industrialized countries they asked: Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States)