5 ms·

How any of you snakes on here can downvote this is beyond me. I mean, I know who you are. People who have a great job and don't really have to worry about ins

by mrlala 6y ago

How any of you snakes on here can downvote this is beyond me. I mean, I know who you are. People who have a great job and don't really have to worry about insurance. Or maybe at a university where insurance is probably covered well. So f everyone else, right? I am self employed so I have to worry about paying all this shit myself; 11k family deductible with 40% co-insurance for $1200. Every time my young kids have had something that was not like a massive emergency, you know what the thought is? Oh god is this worth going to the hospital for and spending 1k? Or when I had my own person health issues, my first thoughts are always how much is this going to fucking cost? So yeah, if you think OPs link is exaggeration.. it sure as hell is not.

EvanAnderson 6y ago
I found, being self-employed for a long time, that hardly anybody inside or outside the medical establishment understands how much health insurance costs for the self-employed (and what little you actually get for it). My first thoughts re: anything health-related are always costs. The treatment one receives from medical provider when they ask about costs is really degrading, too. (Try asking what a procedure for your _child_ will cost-- you really get treated badly for that.)
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  I was employed for about 5 years by a small tech firm that did not have a health plan (this was pre-ACA). They did pay a salary that was commensurately higher. I was able to buy an Anthem individual plan (family coverage) and it was reasonable. It was essentially equivalent to any other employer plan I've ever had except notably it did not cover maternity but that was OK as we were not having any more kids at that point. The absolute best plan I was ever on was an HMO in the 1990s. No out of pocket for anything as long as you were referred by your primary care provider. Our first kid was born via emergency C-section and we never saw a bill for any of it.
AdrianB1 6y ago
I have no great job and I am paying more than 50% in taxes, including health care (not an insurance, but a payroll tax) that I get almost nothing from. That great change described in the article is bringing poor services to everyone, that is the end of it - I saw it in Eastern Europe, I saw it in Western Europe, but people don't want to talk about it. I live in Eastern Europe, decades in a socialist country and decades in a capitalist one, but all with socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize.
- gotostatement 6y ago
  > socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize I can't understand this argument when Canada, England, France, Israel, and many other countries already have healthcare that is totally free to people at the point of service, and people rave about it. Can you explain why you still think it's utopian when it already exists?
  - AdrianB1 6y ago
    Because of limited resources in Canada they had waiting times of several years (Google can point to multiple sources), UK or Nederlands a few months (I have friends working as doctors in these countries) or, in Eastern Europe, you need to get your own drugs from home because the hospital does not have it. With the perceived "free healthcare" the use increases a lot and the limited resources cannot scale up to infinite, so you either have a very long wait time or get the almost nothing left. This is the situation in most of countries with this system. It is mathematically impossible to get what you dream of. In countries like USA the demand is heavily filtered by prices, so people get what they afford to, if you take the filters out you will be left with nothing very fast. I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; here, everybody is equally screwed. The only thing that works well here is giving birth, that is free, you can cover that by the state or federal in US too, but that's about the limit.
    - 6y ago

by mrlala 6y ago

EvanAnderson 6y ago

I found, being self-employed for a long time, that hardly anybody inside or outside the medical establishment understands how much health insurance costs for the self-employed (and what little you actually get for it). My first thoughts re: anything health-related are always costs. The treatment one receives from medical provider when they ask about costs is really degrading, too. (Try asking what a procedure for your _child_ will cost-- you really get treated badly for that.)

throwaway201103 6y ago
I was employed for about 5 years by a small tech firm that did not have a health plan (this was pre-ACA). They did pay a salary that was commensurately higher. I was able to buy an Anthem individual plan (family coverage) and it was reasonable. It was essentially equivalent to any other employer plan I've ever had except notably it did not cover maternity but that was OK as we were not having any more kids at that point. The absolute best plan I was ever on was an HMO in the 1990s. No out of pocket for anything as long as you were referred by your primary care provider. Our first kid was born via emergency C-section and we never saw a bill for any of it.

AdrianB1 6y ago

I have no great job and I am paying more than 50% in taxes, including health care (not an insurance, but a payroll tax) that I get almost nothing from. That great change described in the article is bringing poor services to everyone, that is the end of it - I saw it in Eastern Europe, I saw it in Western Europe, but people don't want to talk about it. I live in Eastern Europe, decades in a socialist country and decades in a capitalist one, but all with socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize.

gotostatement 6y ago
> socialized healthcare and that dream of free healthcare for all is an impossible utopia, you just need to think about it to realize I can't understand this argument when Canada, England, France, Israel, and many other countries already have healthcare that is totally free to people at the point of service, and people rave about it. Can you explain why you still think it's utopian when it already exists?
- AdrianB1 6y ago
  Because of limited resources in Canada they had waiting times of several years (Google can point to multiple sources), UK or Nederlands a few months (I have friends working as doctors in these countries) or, in Eastern Europe, you need to get your own drugs from home because the hospital does not have it. With the perceived "free healthcare" the use increases a lot and the limited resources cannot scale up to infinite, so you either have a very long wait time or get the almost nothing left. This is the situation in most of countries with this system. It is mathematically impossible to get what you dream of. In countries like USA the demand is heavily filtered by prices, so people get what they afford to, if you take the filters out you will be left with nothing very fast. I hate the system in US, but at least it gives a chance to people who can afford it; here, everybody is equally screwed. The only thing that works well here is giving birth, that is free, you can cover that by the state or federal in US too, but that's about the limit.
  - 6y ago