8 ms·

"For years it has been painfully clear that facebook has been a net negative for society." This is just hyperbolic and probably not true. Why do we, ostensibl

by jariel 6y ago

"For years it has been painfully clear that facebook has been a net negative for society." This is just hyperbolic and probably not true. Why do we, ostensibly smart people, so susceptible to such dramatic thinking? Zillions of people use FB every day to read about stuff, connect, organize things. Some of it is a little heated, some of it misinformation, it's a problem. But these bandwagon statements are just too much.

kordlessagain 6y ago
> Zillions of people use FB every day to read about stuff, connect, organize things. This is literally a bandwagon bias argument.
diveanon 6y ago
Have you just not been paying attention the last 4 years or just being willfully ignorant. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you aren't living in the US and haven't logged into facebook during the recent election year.
- jariel 6y ago
  Are you able to step out of your campus/post-campus bubble, or just 'wilfully ignorant'? I use FB when required for family events, and for niche advertising. The vast majority of my family and peers use it, for a variety of reasons, almost none of which is toxic or insidious. Facebook is a reflection of the the internet itself: you have your ice cream blogs, videos about cats, your CNNs, Foxs and the occasional Newsmax turds, very angry social justice types, weddings, funerals, sales, new toys, new interiors, babies, graduations etc. etc. That's life. I was wary of Facebook right form the start, with Millenials foolishly handing over every little bit of their personal lives thinking 'this was the future' ... but also wary of Facebook now, largely for the same reasons, though the evolution was always a little bit obvious if you think about it. People were way too upbeat about it then and way to downbeat about it now. Realize what a narrative and try to get off of it. Facebook was always gossip, prone to bits of otherwise tawdry trash, but otherwise normal for any given era.
  - diveanon 6y ago
    I have not been on campus in decades, if I am in a "post-campus bubble" then I guess I'll be stuck there the rest of my life. There is nothing normal about Facebook and the impact it has had on society. You can try to paint it as just the salt of the earth sharing baby pics and conspiracy theories if you want, but that is pretty naive, especially for this forum. Facebook has spent billions building an engagement engine that has radicalized millions of people all over the world. Talk to burmese refugees about what Facebook means to them and then tell me about my "bubble".
Barrin92 6y ago
>Zillions of people use FB every day to read about stuff, connect, organize things. Zillions of people used to smoke and still do. And even though I assume people were coughing their lungs out for everyone to see because of it since time immemorial, till the 70s people were ridiculed for suggesting that smoking is dangerous rather than cool.
- jariel 6y ago
  Smoking is scientifically proven to be bad for you. Organizing the family Christmas event is not. Comparing FB to smoking is beyond pale - these bits of HN zealotry are a serious detriment to sober thinking, it's anti-intellectual and tiring frankly.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    Organizing the family Christmas isn't, but that doesn't require Facebook. There's enough easily accessible free digital tools for that. General social media use however actually is scientifically associated with quite a lot of negative effects. From increased self-harm in teenage girls (and to a lesser but significant degree boys), to anxiety disorders, bullying, and well we don't need a phd to see the negative effects of having genocides arranged on the website. I don't really see what's anti-intellectual about just looking at the evidence of how these industries manipulate human behaviour, spread misinformation, and cause psychological harm. I think what's deeply anti-intellectual is talking down the degree to which these digital services have changed and intruded into our lives because "it's just an app on your phone bro" which has been the prevailing attitude, that is only slowly changing. I actually suspect that just like smoking, or drinking, we're going to look at how we interacted with online media in the early 21st century with a lot of dismay in the not so far future.
AntiImperialis2 6y ago
I love how you're being downvoted here, for having a different opinion. My primary account got auto-shadow banned because I got so many downvotes that my karma went a lot below zero. With the risk of this account going the same way, I want to add that even the ad part of Facebook is a net positive to everyone involved. Targeting allows small businesses to advertise their niche products or services... and helps the user be aware of the product or services. Before Facebook, the same thing existed but in a different form. You as a small business owner would have to buy placement in niche TV shows or radio programs or a local niche magazine... but for some small businesses, it could be a no go because they'd have to consider a much bigger than required marketing budget. Targeting solves this problem, for small businesses and for users who get suggested the things they're likely to buy and use. In fact, it's not just good for users being targeted, it's even better for those who are not being targeted because they don't have to be bombarded with products they'd never be interested in. The reason Apple is deciding the default for the users when it comes to Facebook learning about the user is to deliberately hurt small businesses and give their users fake sense of "privacy"... and to not let other platforms flourish. Apple needs to be legally challanged for monopolistic practices i.e. disallowing users to choose what software they get to run on devices they purchase. Users should be able to download and install Microsoft App Store, Samsung App Store, Epic Games Store... and install any software they want. Why is Apple allowed to restrict what software users can run? Apple is big and too much of a monopoly. Its hardware and software divisions need to be separated and other companies should be allowed to license and sell their hardware with whatever software they want. Users should be able to choose what software comes with their devices.

by jariel 6y ago

kordlessagain 6y ago

> Zillions of people use FB every day to read about stuff, connect, organize things. This is literally a bandwagon bias argument.

diveanon 6y ago

Have you just not been paying attention the last 4 years or just being willfully ignorant. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you aren't living in the US and haven't logged into facebook during the recent election year.

jariel 6y ago
Are you able to step out of your campus/post-campus bubble, or just 'wilfully ignorant'? I use FB when required for family events, and for niche advertising. The vast majority of my family and peers use it, for a variety of reasons, almost none of which is toxic or insidious. Facebook is a reflection of the the internet itself: you have your ice cream blogs, videos about cats, your CNNs, Foxs and the occasional Newsmax turds, very angry social justice types, weddings, funerals, sales, new toys, new interiors, babies, graduations etc. etc. That's life. I was wary of Facebook right form the start, with Millenials foolishly handing over every little bit of their personal lives thinking 'this was the future' ... but also wary of Facebook now, largely for the same reasons, though the evolution was always a little bit obvious if you think about it. People were way too upbeat about it then and way to downbeat about it now. Realize what a narrative and try to get off of it. Facebook was always gossip, prone to bits of otherwise tawdry trash, but otherwise normal for any given era.
- diveanon 6y ago
  I have not been on campus in decades, if I am in a "post-campus bubble" then I guess I'll be stuck there the rest of my life. There is nothing normal about Facebook and the impact it has had on society. You can try to paint it as just the salt of the earth sharing baby pics and conspiracy theories if you want, but that is pretty naive, especially for this forum. Facebook has spent billions building an engagement engine that has radicalized millions of people all over the world. Talk to burmese refugees about what Facebook means to them and then tell me about my "bubble".

Barrin92 6y ago

>Zillions of people use FB every day to read about stuff, connect, organize things. Zillions of people used to smoke and still do. And even though I assume people were coughing their lungs out for everyone to see because of it since time immemorial, till the 70s people were ridiculed for suggesting that smoking is dangerous rather than cool.

jariel 6y ago
Smoking is scientifically proven to be bad for you. Organizing the family Christmas event is not. Comparing FB to smoking is beyond pale - these bits of HN zealotry are a serious detriment to sober thinking, it's anti-intellectual and tiring frankly.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Organizing the family Christmas isn't, but that doesn't require Facebook. There's enough easily accessible free digital tools for that. General social media use however actually is scientifically associated with quite a lot of negative effects. From increased self-harm in teenage girls (and to a lesser but significant degree boys), to anxiety disorders, bullying, and well we don't need a phd to see the negative effects of having genocides arranged on the website. I don't really see what's anti-intellectual about just looking at the evidence of how these industries manipulate human behaviour, spread misinformation, and cause psychological harm. I think what's deeply anti-intellectual is talking down the degree to which these digital services have changed and intruded into our lives because "it's just an app on your phone bro" which has been the prevailing attitude, that is only slowly changing. I actually suspect that just like smoking, or drinking, we're going to look at how we interacted with online media in the early 21st century with a lot of dismay in the not so far future.

AntiImperialis2 6y ago

I love how you're being downvoted here, for having a different opinion. My primary account got auto-shadow banned because I got so many downvotes that my karma went a lot below zero. With the risk of this account going the same way, I want to add that even the ad part of Facebook is a net positive to everyone involved. Targeting allows small businesses to advertise their niche products or services... and helps the user be aware of the product or services. Before Facebook, the same thing existed but in a different form. You as a small business owner would have to buy placement in niche TV shows or radio programs or a local niche magazine... but for some small businesses, it could be a no go because they'd have to consider a much bigger than required marketing budget. Targeting solves this problem, for small businesses and for users who get suggested the things they're likely to buy and use. In fact, it's not just good for users being targeted, it's even better for those who are not being targeted because they don't have to be bombarded with products they'd never be interested in. The reason Apple is deciding the default for the users when it comes to Facebook learning about the user is to deliberately hurt small businesses and give their users fake sense of "privacy"... and to not let other platforms flourish. Apple needs to be legally challanged for monopolistic practices i.e. disallowing users to choose what software they get to run on devices they purchase. Users should be able to download and install Microsoft App Store, Samsung App Store, Epic Games Store... and install any software they want. Why is Apple allowed to restrict what software users can run? Apple is big and too much of a monopoly. Its hardware and software divisions need to be separated and other companies should be allowed to license and sell their hardware with whatever software they want. Users should be able to choose what software comes with their devices.