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Even as a vocal Apple critic, I'm not sure I understand the support for Facebook here. Apple isn't blocking anything w.r.t Facebook. All they're simply doing is

by neya 6y ago

Even as a vocal Apple critic, I'm not sure I understand the support for Facebook here. Apple isn't blocking anything w.r.t Facebook. All they're simply doing is exposing to the user what Facebook are trying to collect about the user. And then, the user gets full power to approve or disapprove what information goes to Facebook. I think this is a great win for the users. I don't understand how Apple is blocking small businesses here. Apple isn't blocking tracking here at all, the user is, if at all they choose to. If your business model involves fraudulently spying on the users and making money out of it, then too bad, that's your problem. And about the arguments on "Facebook is free". I agree that Facebook is a free service, and they need to be compensated somewhat, but, if a user disables ad tracking, Facebook can simply block them from accessing their free service, which is fair, right? It's only a problem if Facebook continues to allow their free service to such users. Well, even then I would think charging iOS users who block Facebook tracking is a fair deal, especially if there is a premium version of Facebook with no spyware in it, I totally see myself and many others paying for it. But Facebook won't do that, because their core philosophy is just criminal - spy the users as much as you can without their consent. So, fuck them. I support Apple here. I hope Android follows suit as well and we can slowly kill Facebook together.

j2bax 6y ago
I think Facebook prefers the business model where users (their product) think their service is free. This is partially how they've taken the entire digital social world over with their services. With this change, Apple is now forcing them to expose their business model to users (their product). This transparency will inevitably cost them dearly.
- time0ut 6y ago
  Facebook is a vampire cultivating and feeding off of our most extreme emotions. If Apple is selling garlic, I am buying.
Justsignedup 6y ago
As a heavy apple critic, who refuses to buy an iPhone. Facebook is 100% in the wrong here. Apple is not blocking jack shit. Apple is just forcing Facebook to ask permission before exploiting their users. This will be harder on android because google is gonna want to make an exception for themselves. But that won't exactly stand up in court. This entire debacle is making me lean towards switching to an iPhone just for this feature alone. Having said that, I currently use system-wide adblockers on my android so even if facebook was to try, they couldn't get this info (granted, I don't have fb installed). Edit: as far as I understand it: - you must ask for permission before gathering/serving personalized data/ads - you must NOT disable any features of the app if the uses says no (similar to the tracking cookie stuff in EU) - you can still display generalized ads that are not personalized. (I am replying to a comment because I want to add on to it, not because I am debating against it)
LordHumungous 6y ago
It's a close call between my dislike for Facebook's model, and my dislike for Apple's walled-garden, which this move is absolutely intended to reinforce.
threatofrain 6y ago
The only objection IMO would be if Apple allowed their own ads platform to have different treatment. Then it would look like Apple using platform power to manipulate the ad market.
- kergonath 6y ago
  It is not about ads, it is about tracking across apps.
  - throwaway314158 6y ago
    ...which in turn is about ads.
    - kergonath 6y ago
      Right, but tracking being about ads does not make showing ads equivalent to tracking, although Facebook wants you to believe that. IOW, (A => B) does not imply (A <= B). Or (A <=> B), for that matter.
    - cwkoss 6y ago
      Based on Facebooks history of choosing profit over ethics, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to productize surveillance of citizens to authoritarian governments, if they haven't already.
- tehlike 6y ago
  Apple does do that.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    Apple does not do third party ad tracking.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  Watch to see if they have the notification for News or other apps that show their app install ads which seem to use data, not as much/well as FB, but still tracks users and for sure tracks install conversions
Solocomplex 6y ago
It's assumed the user will always block invasive tracking, given the choice. So it was a flawed, unethical business from the start.
TedShiller 6y ago
Agreed. Apple is not blocking anything. They are simply giving full transparency to the user as to what is happening. If Facebook's tracking is indeed so great for the user, then users will overwhelmingly and enthusiastically opt-in, and Facebook has nothing to worry about.
wdr1 6y ago
I don't support FB, but the point that Apple is excluding themselves from the same control is questionable at best.
- zepto 6y ago
  The point about Apple excluding themselves is complete bullshit. Apple explains explained what they track and asks users to opt-in. They have already been doing this. All they are doing now is requiring other apps to be similarly opt-in.
  - wdr1 6y ago
    When I start each Apple app I'll have the same prompt? That's the experience Facebook, Google & others will face, and it's not what Apple does in iOS 14. There's also a different setting specifically to disable tracking in Apple Apps whereas all the others are lumped together: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios13-iphone-11-pro-settings-privacy-advertising.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare...

by neya 6y ago

j2bax 6y ago

I think Facebook prefers the business model where users (their product) think their service is free. This is partially how they've taken the entire digital social world over with their services. With this change, Apple is now forcing them to expose their business model to users (their product). This transparency will inevitably cost them dearly.

time0ut 6y ago
Facebook is a vampire cultivating and feeding off of our most extreme emotions. If Apple is selling garlic, I am buying.

Justsignedup 6y ago

As a heavy apple critic, who refuses to buy an iPhone. Facebook is 100% in the wrong here. Apple is not blocking jack shit. Apple is just forcing Facebook to ask permission before exploiting their users. This will be harder on android because google is gonna want to make an exception for themselves. But that won't exactly stand up in court. This entire debacle is making me lean towards switching to an iPhone just for this feature alone. Having said that, I currently use system-wide adblockers on my android so even if facebook was to try, they couldn't get this info (granted, I don't have fb installed). Edit: as far as I understand it: - you must ask for permission before gathering/serving personalized data/ads - you must NOT disable any features of the app if the uses says no (similar to the tracking cookie stuff in EU) - you can still display generalized ads that are not personalized. (I am replying to a comment because I want to add on to it, not because I am debating against it)

LordHumungous 6y ago

It's a close call between my dislike for Facebook's model, and my dislike for Apple's walled-garden, which this move is absolutely intended to reinforce.

threatofrain 6y ago

The only objection IMO would be if Apple allowed their own ads platform to have different treatment. Then it would look like Apple using platform power to manipulate the ad market.

kergonath 6y ago
It is not about ads, it is about tracking across apps.
- throwaway314158 6y ago
  ...which in turn is about ads.
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Right, but tracking being about ads does not make showing ads equivalent to tracking, although Facebook wants you to believe that. IOW, (A => B) does not imply (A <= B). Or (A <=> B), for that matter.
  - cwkoss 6y ago
    Based on Facebooks history of choosing profit over ethics, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to productize surveillance of citizens to authoritarian governments, if they haven't already.
tehlike 6y ago
Apple does do that.
- sjwright 6y ago
  Apple does not do third party ad tracking.
dillondoyle 6y ago
Watch to see if they have the notification for News or other apps that show their app install ads which seem to use data, not as much/well as FB, but still tracks users and for sure tracks install conversions

Solocomplex 6y ago

It's assumed the user will always block invasive tracking, given the choice. So it was a flawed, unethical business from the start.

TedShiller 6y ago

Agreed. Apple is not blocking anything. They are simply giving full transparency to the user as to what is happening. If Facebook's tracking is indeed so great for the user, then users will overwhelmingly and enthusiastically opt-in, and Facebook has nothing to worry about.

wdr1 6y ago

I don't support FB, but the point that Apple is excluding themselves from the same control is questionable at best.

zepto 6y ago
The point about Apple excluding themselves is complete bullshit. Apple explains explained what they track and asks users to opt-in. They have already been doing this. All they are doing now is requiring other apps to be similarly opt-in.
- wdr1 6y ago
  When I start each Apple app I'll have the same prompt? That's the experience Facebook, Google & others will face, and it's not what Apple does in iOS 14. There's also a different setting specifically to disable tracking in Apple Apps whereas all the others are lumped together: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios13-iphone-11-pro-settings-privacy-advertising.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare...